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jirimenzel

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Reply with quote  #1 
Hain's website doesn't take very kindly to sound therapy and comes up with the term ''therapeutic nihilism'' which I think couldn't be more appropriate, judging from how tinnitus.org treats its misinformed readers.

http://www.dizziness-and-balance.com/disorders/hearing/tinnitus.htm

''It is very well accepted that tinnitus often is "centralized" -- while it is usually initiated with an inner ear event, persistent tinnitus is associated with changes in central auditory processing (Adjamian et al, 2009). Sometimes this idea is used to put forth a "therapeutic nihilism" -- suggesting that fixing the "cause" -- i.e. inner ear disorder -- will not make the tinnitus go away.   This to us seems overly simplistic -- while it is clear that the central nervous system participates in perception of sounds, and thus must be a participant in the "tinnitus" process, we think that it is implausible that in most cases that there is not an underlying "driver" for persistent tinnitus.''

He then backs it up:

''Supporting the idea that central reorganization is overestimated as "the" cause of tinnitus, a recent study by Wineland et al showed no changes in central connectivity of auditory cortex or other key cortical regions (Wineland et al, 2012). Considering other parts of the brain, Ueyama et al (2013) reported that there was increased fMRI activity in the bilateral rectus gyri, as well as cingulate gyri correlating with distress. Loudness was correlated with values in the thalamus, bilateral hippocampus and left caudate. In other words, the changes in the brain associated with tinnitus seem to be associated with emotional reaction (e.g. cingulate), and input systems (e.g. thalamus). There are a few areas whose role is not so obvious (e.g. caudate). This makes a more sense than the Wineland result, but of course, they were measuring different things. MRI studies related to audition or dizziness must be interpreted with great caution as the magnetic field of the MRI stimulates the inner ear, and because MRI scanners are noisy.''

So much for the ''limbic system this limbic system that'' crowd.

He then goes on to note that East and Hazell were in the 80s applying maskers to palatal myoclonus and reporting success. Yay!

http://www.dizziness-and-balance.com/disorders/hearing/tinnitus/tensor%20tympani%20and%20stapedius%20myoclonus%20tinnitus.html

''Although masking has been reported effective (East et al, 1987), it is difficult to see a reasonable rationale, and we suspect this is a placebo.''

What is Hazell anyways, a mad scientist? Whats next after palatal myoclonus, can sound therapy treat mandibular disorder? maybe treat parkinsons with sound maskers? And maskers of all things which were later disavowed by the sound therapists who claimed that masking was no longer enough, that instead you had to slowly increase sound to polemical levels.

Hain also doesn't take kindly to one of the central tents of sound therapy:

http://www.dizziness-and-balance.com/disorders/hearing/noise.htm

''We also don't buy the argument that sound up to a certain threshold is safe, and beyond that is unsafe. We think that there is a continuum. Of course, this topic is a "hot button" one for those who sell devices that make loud noises.''

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DrNagler

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Trees forest see can't.
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elizo

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Reply with quote  #3 
New points of view are always welcome. But from my own experience I do know too well what happens whenever I hear sound beyond my safe threshold.
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DrNagler

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Quote:
Originally Posted by elizo
New points of view are always welcome. But from my own experience I do know too well what happens whenever I hear sound beyond my safe threshold.

What happens whenever you hear sound beyond your safe threshold?

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Aplomado

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Reply with quote  #5 
jirimenzel, like I have told you before, I don't know what your problem is, but sound therapy can help at least some people with hyperacusis, if not most of them.  It has helped me tremendously, and now I am having more good days than bad.

In my opinion, hyperacusis starts with damage to the ear... and it is the brain's reaction to the damage that is so unpleasant.  Sound therapy re-trains the brain to respond in an appropriate way to the abnormal signal coming from the ear.  Even if the ear never comes back to normal, the brain can learn to respond appropriately to sound again.  I think tinnitus also starts with ear damage in a similar manner.  These are just my ideas, I'm not dogmatic about them.

I can tell you it is 100% true that sound therapy has lifted me out of a living hell of pain though.
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jirimenzel

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aplomado
jirimenzel, like I have told you before, I don't know what your problem is, but sound therapy can help at least some people with hyperacusis, if not most of them.  It has helped me tremendously, and now I am having more good days than bad.

In my opinion, hyperacusis starts with damage to the ear... and it is the brain's reaction to the damage that is so unpleasant.  Sound therapy re-trains the brain to respond in an appropriate way to the abnormal signal coming from the ear.  Even if the ear never comes back to normal, the brain can learn to respond appropriately to sound again.  I think tinnitus also starts with ear damage in a similar manner.  These are just my ideas, I'm not dogmatic about them.

I can tell you it is 100% true that sound therapy has lifted me out of a living hell of pain though.


Maybe you had the type of hearing loss, and the tinnitus and hyperacusis that comes with it, that can be spotted on notches on an OAE. And that bringing up Hazell's ''successful'' experiments with palatal myoclonus is embarassing for sound therapists because its so obviously ridiculous that sound therapy would help with something that's so blatantly outside the auditory pathway such as palatal myoclonus.
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jirimenzel

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrNagler
Trees forest see can't.


Not that Sismanis wants to speak about it much, but it does seem that he doesn't believe acoustic impedance proves or disproves myoclonus. And yet Jastreboff in his book on TRT clinical implementation says ''acoustic impedance testing is most useful in counseling a patient with inappropriate beliefs about middle ear pathology''. And if Hazell in 1987 was getting carried away on some kind of national lampoon, then this is more fishy than Madonna's nether...lands.
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elizo

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrNagler
What happens whenever you hear sound beyond your safe threshold?

Most likely, I have a setback. Small or big setback, it depends on how loud the sound was, how long I was exposed to that sound and which frequencies the sound contained.


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DrNagler

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrNagler
What happens whenever you hear sound beyond your safe threshold?

Quote:
Originally Posted by elizo
Most likely, I have a setback. Small or big setback, it depends on how loud the sound was, how long I was exposed to that sound and which frequencies the sound contained.


I understand, elizo. Thank you for responding.

So what have you done in the way of trying to increase your threshold?

stephen nagler

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elizo

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Reply with quote  #10 
DrNagler,

The six ENTs and two audiologists I visited weren't able to help me with my very severe hyperacusis. After going through a very tough and long period I eventually developed my own sound therapy protocol. And it worked. It has nothing that would surprise you at all. In fact, I think it's still improvable. The merit, if any, is that I developed it on my own with little help, without reading any post on this great board (for some reason the server was unreachable from my country back then).

Sound theraphy did help me, and still does. To date, it is my only hope.

elizo
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DrNagler

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by elizo
DrNagler, The six ENTs and two audiologists I visited weren't able to help me with my very severe hyperacusis. After going through a very tough and long period I eventually developed my own sound therapy protocol. And it worked. It has nothing that would surprise you at all. In fact, I think it's still improvable. The merit, if any, is that I developed it on my own with little help, without reading any post on this great board (for some reason the server was unreachable from my country back then). Sound theraphy did help me, and still does. To date, it is my only hope. elizo

Wow. You saw six ENTs and two audiologists for evaluation and treatment of your severe hyperacusis. You are indeed a very determined person.

If I may ask, what were your LDLs?

stephen nagler

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No bird ever soared in a calm. Adversity is what lifts us.

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elizo

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Reply with quote  #12 
DrNagler,

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrNagler
Wow. You saw six ENTs and two audiologists for evaluation and treatment of your severe hyperacusis. You are indeed a very determined person.


Well, I would say I was a desperate person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrNagler
If I may ask, what were your LDLs?


They were around 40 dB.

elizo
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DrNagler

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Reply with quote  #13 
Do you happen to know what they are now?

stephen nagler

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No bird ever soared in a calm. Adversity is what lifts us.

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elizo

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Reply with quote  #14 
DrNagler,

I don't know exactly. I estimate the LDLs to be at 50's now.

I made a big mistake and had a bad setback, so I have to increase my sound tolerance again. But it's improving at a good pace.

elizo
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DrNagler

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Reply with quote  #15 
I wish you well with it.

stephen nagler

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No bird ever soared in a calm. Adversity is what lifts us.

- David McCullough quoting Wilbur Wright
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elizo

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrNagler
I wish you well with it.


Thank you for your good wishes.
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Purztruq

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Reply with quote  #17 

In the first post there is a link to an article about TT and SM myoclonus. That article made me hear a recording of a SM noise, which I had never heard before.

Maybe I´m going to open another thread for this subject, but… Anybody know if that kind of tic/click sound, or something similar, could be made by the TT also? (I think I read some description of the TTTS which says click sounds could be done by the TT)

And how do they know it is the SM sound? The article don´t say if they were seeing it at the same time they were recording it. (Who did the recording? Klockhoff in 1959? Where can I find the paper? Are there other recordings, of the SM and the TT? More recent ones?)

I want to know if both my TT and SM are overexcited, sometimes.

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Aplomado

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Reply with quote  #18 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jirimenzel


Maybe you had the type of hearing loss, and the tinnitus and hyperacusis that comes with it, that can be spotted on notches on an OAE. And that bringing up Hazell's ''successful'' experiments with palatal myoclonus is embarassing for sound therapists because its so obviously ridiculous that sound therapy would help with something that's so blatantly outside the auditory pathway such as palatal myoclonus.


I don't know who Hazell is and I don't know what palatal mononuconus is.  The doctor said my hearing was in the normal range.  All I know is sound therapy works for my hyperacusis and I am not the only one.

I suspect the hair cells that are damaged in some hyperacusis patients only serve as warning signs to the brain about loud noises, and don't transmit audible sounds.

This what I am referring to:

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2015-11-nerve-cells-brain-ear.html

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jameswalker

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Reply with quote  #19 
does anyone know where you purchase these noise CDs for hyperacusis to use when you are sleeping.  I noticed my ears are not quite as sensitive in the morning to sound if I leave my tv on the music station at night.   Im assuming these CDs for hyperacusis may be better than what I am doing right now.  Thanks Jim Walker 540 552 9205. 
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Aplomado

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Reply with quote  #20 

You can get the pink noise CD here- it is helpful:

http://www.hyperacusis.net/what-to-do/white-noise-and-pink-noise/

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