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Rob

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Reply with quote  #51 

DrJ writes --

 

When you have hyperacusis … it is so easy to 'catch' phonophobia or even … misophonia ... And it seems perfectly rational … Working through these ideas, very deep seated ideas that quickly coagulate into rock-like beliefs, is of enormous help in freeing the self to move, again, towards … health.

 

I agree with what DrJ has written here.  I wrote about my own experience of this the other day in another thread.

 

Rob

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Marilyn

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Reply with quote  #52 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJ
Great post Marilyn.  Seriously.  A combination of educational awareness combined with a professional course of sound therapy can literally change someone's life quality.

Thanks, Dr. J.  You're right.  My quality of life the past 4 months has vastly improved.  My doctor's acute ability to hone in on where I am and what I need to hear, sure helps.  One visit she remarked that I can completely recover.  At that point, I couldn't even imagine being completely well, and had subconsciously settled for a partial recovery from hyperacusis.  That set me free!

You said, "I believe there is a marvelous verse from the Old Testament, maybe some can recall it more here, how fearfully and wonderfully we are wrought...in the image of God...something like that, knit together in our mothers...."

Dr. J, That's a good reminder to us.  The verse is in my favorite chapter of Psalms.

I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvelous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.  Psalm 139:14

You wrote, "When you have hyperacusis....
...it is so easy to 'catch' phonophobia or even yes misophonia....easier than the chicken pox at a school....And it seems perfectly rational. If that bee stings me, I am going to avoid ALL bees and all bee-related things, oh dear, then we would miss so many flowers, orchards, gardens, and honey, too.

Working through these ideas, very deep seated ideas that quickly coagulate into rock-like beliefs, is of enormous help in freeing the self to move, again, towards that path that takes one quietly back to the full bloom of health.
"

Wow, that's a good illustration.  Yes, in my experience it's like peeling an onion.  Next I'll deal with my misophonia to restaurants and places where there's a microphone.  Last time I was in those places, they hurt.  {[(One step at a time, one day at a time... better days are ahead!)]}

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Johnloudb

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Reply with quote  #53 

Quote:
DrJ writes --

When you have hyperacusis … it is so easy to 'catch' phonophobia or even … misophonia ... And it seems perfectly rational … Working through these ideas, very deep seated ideas that quickly coagulate into rock-like beliefs, is of enormous help in freeing the self to move, again, towards … health.

Yeah, I really agree with that statement too Dr. J. Which is exactly why we shouldn't be scaring people about cars or God forbid walking down the street downtown. 

And when a sound hurts your ears and you react badly it also becomes more and more of a problem, as the very sensitive limbic and autonomic nervous system turns up the gain for the next time you hear it. And, I tried to do more of these things that bothered me and ended up doing less and less.

I had some wrong beliefs about my ears, like many people. Like many with hyperacusis, I feared my symptoms were an indication of permanent damage, and it was my fears about my symptoms that led me down this path of self destruction. 

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pattiluv

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Reply with quote  #54 
i don't have a problem with roads and almost never have
i do have a bmw which is pretty quiet, even pre-hyperacusis i wanted a quiet car
there is only one road that i couldn't drive since getting h
in the sierras, it was a ridged, grooved road,
probably to diffuse problems with ice and snow etc
that was really washerboard-loud!
let's not forget too that the time factor makes a difference, not just the decibels
debbie, if the noise keeps bothering you maybe you could get a quieter car?


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Debbie

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Reply with quote  #55 
Thanks again to all who have responded to me in this thread. Your kind and thoughtful input has been food for thought, and comforting as I've pressed forward. You've reminded me that it's also no shame to maintain some boundaries with sounds.

Dr. J, thank you so much for replying. I find your comment about aucustic trauma's potential effects on the outer middle ear space, in terms of loosening things a bit, to be interesting.
This is just what going over clunking potholes and (when more sensitive - due to many exposures close together) bumpy roads feels like in the area just inside my eardrum...as if structures are being jostled.
If it repeatedly happens, it reminds me of the sensation I had when I had broken my arm on a camping trip. I had to drive 8 hours in a pick-up truck back to my state where I have insurance in order to have it X-rayed and put in a splint.
The rattling of driving led to more irritation and pain in the broken bone area.
Also, with my ear, with impacts such as when jumping on a rebounder or doing step aerobics.

The types of roads I'm driving on include your basic city streets in need of repair. Roads with regular and unexpected places of potholes which make the axels of a compact car clunk or thud loudly, or even just driving over the raised, tar filled cracks which produce a "kalunk, kalunk, kalunk" sound as you go. Also even (especially once ear is re-sensitized by the previous things) the off-on street patches where the top, smooth surface of the pavement has been worn off, and it is highly frictional, driving over it is suddenly much louder and more vibrational than smooth, new pavement.


It's not necessarily about the decible levels...it's about the bumps and jostles. I feel these jostles in my right (affected) ear but my left ear feels buffered from them, as if it is solidly packed, like a regular old ear.
Like when I drove over bumps with my broken arm, I felt the bumps acutely in the break area of that arm.
But the other arm did not feel the bumps.
Just like my right ear clearly feels each of these rattles & bumps but my left ear feels buffered and secure from them.


Pattiluv, you are right, it's time for me to get a new car. I have a Honda, and a compact coup, factors which I've heard make a car's quietness lower down priorities for the average buyer. A friend says the suspension on a coup may be tighter, for sporty handling vs quietness.
The engine has a deep, "grating" loudness quality around 3rd gear especially, when getting up to speed. Driving it is a constant sand paper sensation in my ear, and with the vibrational impacts of the roads on top of that.
It used to be that driving literally felt like I was sanding my skin and tendons away just inside my eardrum.

When things have been "re-irritated" to the extent that they become more obvious (increasingly uncomfortable) again, the impacts to my head are also more than they should be.
Like those jabbing pains one gets with each step when one is severely dehydrated and overheated...a flash of nauseating pain goes through the crown of my head with each bump.

I do really think this has something to do with tightening tissues...a protective response gone perhaps awry..leading to a reduction in flexibility of the "shock absorbing" functions of the fluids and structures.

I really wonder if I was not driving....or preventing being re-irritated especially by my car (and my car was what originally eroded my tolerances after hyperacusis began) if I could improve better and faster.

And thus, if sound proofing, and getting extra special shocks or something, would be worth it.


Dr. J., if you are still around here, by the way, for tissues which may have been stretched, etc, near the eardrum area, are there any doctors you know of who might be able to discuss possiblities for supportive measures for this?
Nano-prolotherapy or something (they use prolotherapy for example to tighten stretched connective tissues in other body areas.) Mostly kidding on that one, I know we're talking about the ear here.
On the othter hand, how about a certain type of PT for the ear....with tuning forks or something...vibrational sound therapies (more specific than with regular old sounds or sound therapies) to build up the muscles of the ear so that they help hold the structures in place again, just like we strengthen the quads with PT exercises when the patallar tendon is too stretched to hold the structures  in place correctly and the kneecap gets a grating "tracking" issue.
Which if left off track, will only help support wear and tear leading to arthritis.

Who in the ear-world is studying this???
Or would like to?
I  would be happy to collaborate!
I really think these areas of apparently neglected study could help inform a the  treatment for a much broader application than just h/t.

Debbie










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Rob

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Reply with quote  #56 

Debbie writes -- 

 

Dr. J … I find your comment about aucustic trauma's potential effects on the outer middle ear space, in terms of loosening things a bit, to be interesting.  This is just what going over clunking potholes and (when more sensitive - due to many exposures close together) bumpy roads feels like in the area just inside my eardrum...as if structures are being jostled.

 

I recall having a similar feeling when exposed to some sounds.  I found desensitization therapy was essential for ameliorating it.  I no longer have this sensation when I’m exposed to normal levels of sound.  So, although it felt it physically, it either somehow healed over time or was not physical to begin with, even if it felt that way.

 

The types of roads I'm driving on include your basic city streets in need of repair. Roads with regular and unexpected places of potholes which make the axels of a compact car clunk or thud loudly, or even just driving over the raised, tar filled cracks which produce a "kalunk, kalunk, kalunk" sound as you go. Also even (especially once ear is re-sensitized by the previous things) the off-on street patches where the top, smooth surface of the pavement has been worn off, and it is highly frictional, driving over it is suddenly much louder and more vibrational than smooth, new pavement.

 

I can’t recall if you’ve ever had your loudness discomfort levels measured.  I don’t think so, but it’s been a while since I’ve asked you.  That test would shed light on things for you.  For example, the problem with the change in the road from old to new pavement is also a change in frequency.  Driving over the smooth, new pavement would present sound to your ears that is lower in frequency than the older pavement.  If an LDL test shows you have reduced tolerance in the associated frequency range, then your symptom could be described as hyperacusis.  If you have normal tolerance at that frequency, your symptom might be described as misophonia.  

 

It's not necessarily about the decible levels...it's about the bumps and jostles. I feel these jostles in my right (affected) ear but my left ear feels buffered from them, as if it is solidly packed, like a regular old ear. 

 

Again, an LDL exam would shed light on this for you.

 

Driving it is a constant sand paper sensation in my ear, and with the vibrational impacts of the roads on top of that.  It used to be that driving literally felt like I was sanding my skin and tendons away just inside my eardrum.

 

Please see my last comment.

 

I do really think this has something to do with tightening tissues...a protective response gone perhaps awry..leading to a reduction in flexibility of the "shock absorbing" functions of the fluids and structures.

 

It might be a protective response, in one way or another, and assuming that’s what it is it’s important to figure out whether it’s hyperacusis or something else.

 

I really wonder if I was not driving....or preventing being re-irritated especially by my car (and my car was what originally eroded my tolerances after hyperacusis began) if I could improve better and faster.

 

You could improve better and faster by doing everything in your power to work with an informed and knowledgeable doctor to figure out what it is that your dealing with.  I think that’s a better approach than avoiding something as basic as driving a car, regardless of the driving conditions you’re describing.   

 

And thus, if sound proofing, and getting extra special shocks or something, would be worth it. 

 

I don’t think that would be helpful to you at all. 

 

Dr. J., if you are still around here, by the way, for tissues which may have been stretched, etc, near the eardrum area, are there any doctors you know of who might be able to discuss possiblities for supportive measures for this? 

 

I’m not a doctor, but I’ve experienced what you described, and many times at that.  It feels like a physical sensation of movement inside the ear.  I no longer experience it around normal sound, including the sort of driving conditions you’ve described.  If you are describing hyperacusis, then you can do something about it.  But that would mean considering the standard approach to treating hyperacusis.   

 

On the othter hand, how about a certain type of PT for the ear... to build up the muscles of the ear so that they help hold the structures in place again, just like we strengthen the quads with PT exercises …

 

Can you think of the use of broadband noise as physical therapy for the ear?  It did the trick for me, along with several other strategies – all involving sound.

 

Who in the ear-world is studying this???

 

I’ve lived it.  I’ve heard other folks talk about this symptom too.  You’re not alone, and as you said at the start of your post there’s no shame in maintaining some boundaries with sound.  If it hurts, it hurts.  The question is what steps can you take to help resolve this symptom and if you will take those steps?  

 

I would be happy to collaborate!

 

You can do that too.  You can collaborate in your own health and wellness by doing the stuff that has worked so well for others and jumping in with both feet.    

 

Rob

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Debbie

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Reply with quote  #57 
Dear Rob,

Thanks for your reply.
You have long been a strong advocate of TRT and pink noise for hyperacusis.
I am up for whatever will work and will consult with Dr. Robb, who I have connected with occasionally, about his sense of TRT for this issue.

I am doubting that this is 'hyperacusis.'
I had very strong hyperacusis right after my original acustic trauma, consisting of dramatically increased loudness perception, which I don't have any more.
By several hours after the incident, when my dog licked her paws it sounded to me like she was licking them into a microphone.
My neighbors previously "background noise" outdoor swamp cooler which I could hear through my open window became as loud as a jet plane that would wake me up even with my window closed.
And on and on, the microwave door would shut as if it was shutting into a microphone...and forget turning on the microwave.
That was the world on a higher volume, or what I take to be 'hyperacusis.' Although I'm not sure where the strict boundaries of 'hyperacusis' are considered to be, and if physical pain and physical consequences of sound exposures without increased loudness perception would still be considered hyperacusis.

I think some misophonia is bound to creep in to any of us who currently feel pain or other consequences of sound...but the misophonia is secondary, it is a response to the former, and does not explain the former.

Yes, I know that sometimes a habit of assuming pain could develop...where someone is so busy anticipating pain, and focusing on pain, that they fail to notice it has gone, or could be gone if they release the expectation of pain, and that may happen at times with pain and discomfort with sounds.

I do think that most of us have enough insight, if we were to stop and truly be honest with ourselves, to be able to identify where this is probably going on.

I feel that misophonia, while something I become aware of when it comes up (and name it to myself and step through it) is probably not at the forefront of my issue...and instead, perhaps more the reverse.

My desire to ignore the ear pains and discomforts and "be normal" and do all the things I want & need to do is what ends up both dramatically expanding my abilitities to do them AND leaves me with consequences at times - consequences which as opposed to being anticipated, take me by surprise because to my mind, I'm better.

I want to leave ear discomforts and restrictions far behind me and just get on with my life.

And for the most part, I have. I go to the symphony (leaving during movements with lots of percussion) and plays without earplugs, I do drive an average of 60 mts/day without earplugs, I go to parties, two days a week have a required dance class involving music with (by design) driving, bass beats. For THAT, when someone pushes it very loud, I must ask them to turn it down or I leave the room.
I "expect" to be and feel normal during and after, not to have problems...and when I do, that's when I can feel frustrated.


I know we who at least started with hyperacusis do have literal, physical SOMETHING going on with our ears (each of us slighly or very different, depending on many factors,) and to expect to stop having any symptoms at all ever again may often be unrealistic.

My desire for this is what gets me in trouble more than any misophonia, I think, simply because I've deliberately learned to identify what may be an aquired discomfort and fear, what may more likely be actual, and I usually err on the side of running through the fear, into the activity, and getting so engrossed in the activity that I ignore or defy the sensations in my ears.



This is again to Dr J or anyone who deals with ears medically....
Though probably not to be read while eating.

I feel almost certain that in my case, an on & off, retracted eardrum is part of the stuck ear feelings/fullness, (so far temporary or fluctuating) degrees of loss of hearing, high-pitched, pulse-synchronous tinnitus, and even the sound sensitivity because there have been various times where I felt a circular "unpeeling" sensation around my eardrum for an hour or more (like the sensation of peeling tape or duct tape off skin, and sometimes stronger than that)...then a release of stuck sensations and a sudden, 80-90+% reduction in fullness, tinnitus, and even sound sensitivity.

After one of those incidents, I could drive with none of the usual sensitivities and even go throw branches from my yard into the landscaper's truck as his crew ran their leaf blowers - all as if I was normal, with no sense of sensitivity to these usually intolerably grating, ear-irritating sounds, which often result in increased symptoms and sensitivies afterwards.

The suseptability to have the usual consequences from sounds was not there, nor was the fullness in the ear or the tinnitus, etc.

Here's a kind of unappetizing detail.
To back up this idea about the retracted eardrum, I have had a pretty thick, shiny, semi-circular ring of apparently dried blood, as well, like a red, brittle plastic ring, about the circumference of my eardrum, dug out of my ear on a q-tip (I had felt it blocking the canal,) as if it had been caked around the outside of the eardrum.

So far no doctor has considered this with me....
I feel that when things are in their "unstressed," normal position, that is when the symptoms don't get kicked up and, even, hardly exist.
When the eardrum may be getting sucked in, it may be compressing local cappilaries, leading to increases in the pulsatile squealing plus the annoying fullness, stuck sensation, and further sensitivity when exposed to further irritations.

What would a medical method to carefully look into this and possibly treatment be for this IF this is possibly the case?
Steriods? Muscle relaxers? What would be the best way to rule in or out this scenario? Something other than simply looking into the ear with one of those black plastic instruments (otoscope?)for about 2 seconds?

Anyway, in conclusion, yes misophonia, although again I think secondary to the cause of the discomforts and pain, and one (who is sane and really is committed to trying) could apply insight and sense the difference.

And yes broadband if that could further help. I will do anything which could further help!

On the other hand, in terms of hyperacusis, loudness perception, for me that is largely in the past, and behaviorally, I'm doing my life, I'm not hiding away,  and driving daily.  

I would like to see the normative data on results for those who have done TRT, at the point of 1.75 years since onset of hyperacusis, that is where I am now.
By this point in treatment, on average, have those with TRT fared better than I have in terms of freedom to do activities (such as by now not having anything left in the environment, such as loud motorcycles, driving bass beats, or whatever, which were very problematic at first and which one realizes can still sometimes be still a bit problematic?)

TRT is very expensive, and I feel like I've overcome about 75-80% re: my ear discomforts doing a different track, having come from a place where even silverware was too loud, even my dog licking her paws was too loud.
Statistically, do those at 1.75 years post onset have more freedoms to do activities, and less points of discomfort, than I do compared to starting from a very severe state of discomfort and limitation?

If there is data to indicate that I am behind the success most from my starting place gain through TRT by this point, I would do the acrobatics to try to figure out how to afford it.

Meanwhile, I have come a long, long way and am proud of where I am now. Even though I wish I was all better. And I still would like to be sure my ENT's have done the right methods to explore the symptoms I have described here, which have not really been addressed in my 4 ENT appts since the start of  the various ear troubles.

Debbie



 

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Rob

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Reply with quote  #58 

Although I'm not sure where the strict boundaries of 'hyperacusis' are considered to be, and if physical pain and physical consequences of sound exposures without increased loudness perception would still be considered hyperacusis.  

 

I hear you.  It's an excellent question. 

 

And yes broadband if that could further help. I will do anything which could further help! 

 

I found a workaround for the remaining sound that causes me to feel long-lasting ear pain, and that’s what drew me to your earlier post.  When I work with broadband noise of a certain bandwidth at the same time I expose my ears to that sound I am perfectly fine.  I hope you find a workaround for your stuff.

 

On the other hand, in terms of hyperacusis, loudness perception, for me that is largely in the past, and behaviorally, I'm doing my life, I'm not hiding away,  and driving daily.   

 

That’s great, Debbie. 

 

TRT is very expensive …

 

There are other, far less expensive options involving broadband noise.  I’m sure Dr. Robb can talk to you some more about that. 

 

Even though I wish I was all better. 

 

That’s what motivated me to respond to your post.  I was wondering if something that has been helpful to me with respect to ear pain might be helpful to you.    

 

Rob

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aQuieterBreeze

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Reply with quote  #59 
Hi Debbie,

I hope you are doing much better.
 
you mentioned-
The types of roads I'm driving on include your basic city streets in need of repair. Roads with regular and unexpected places of potholes which make the axels of a compact car clunk or thud loudly, or even just driving over the raised, tar filled cracks which produce a "kalunk, kalunk, kalunk" sound as you go. Also even (especially once ear is re-sensitized by the previous things) the off-on street patches where the top, smooth surface of the pavement has been worn off, and it is highly frictional, driving over it is suddenly much louder and more vibrational than smooth, new pavement........

It's not necessarily about the decible levels...it's about the bumps and jostles. I feel these jostles in my right (affected) ear but my left ear feels buffered from them, as if it is solidly packed, like a regular old ear.
Like when I drove over bumps with my broken arm, I felt the bumps acutely in the break area of that arm........

Pattiluv, you are right, it's time for me to get a new car. ......


Have you thought of renting a car, for a little while (If that is possible for you) - something with better shocks,  and maybe a little quieter overall,  that may be able to handle those roads better?
To see how you would do in a different vehicle...especially since it sounds like you spend alot of time on the road,.if you could keep your hearing/ears from getting more sensitive from the drive - that may help in other ways as well..

Even as you work on reacclimating to the frequencies or sounds you are still more sensitive to - maybe to be able to do that in other ways may be helpful....
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aQuieterBreeze

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Reply with quote  #60 
Debbie,
May you find healing on all levels, and for every tear you have cried,  a thousand reasons to smile.
Wishing you much brighter days,
aQB

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aQuieterBreeze

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Reply with quote  #61 
Hi Patti,

In another thread you mentioned -
in my experience ear pain comes from too much exposure and is a signal for time to give it a break. that may mean silence or quietude for a few days. or stopping white noise/pink noise or whatever you are doing to push limits.......

....i let my ear pain be a guide to how quickly i can progress.
usually i don't get it but when i do it's a signal to slow down.
like i was a at a bar yesterday with a friend (big victory) and today i have just a tad of pain. so... slow down. will go back to that noise level but not until ear pain goes away.

Congratulations on being willing to push and test your limits, and I hope you had a wonderful time!
Yes, I like your idea of taking it  easier around sound for a bit -( that sounds like a good idea to me,) ..and remember what you mentioned in this thread -
sometimes the pain (in your case) is delayed a bit - though hopefully whatever you do notice will fade very soon.

Something I notice sometimes is an increased feeling of aural  fullness
and if i know i am already pushing my limits at those times, for me that is also a sign to back off a bit.

Though we are all different, and I can not say what would be right for others  (and I do not usually  get alot of severe pain, or delayed pain- like some have mentioned) When my hearing/ears get more sensitive (from being around sound that is too much For Me to tolerate) -  though I definitely take it easier around sound at those times, if I am able to tolerate it,  I will usually try to have something VERY gentle that sounds soothing to my ears playing  in the background -
 IF I can easily tolerate it. Just gently and quietly playing, on low volume over external speakers - at levels and settings that are Very comfortable for me  at those times. As I have found there are some selections that sound soothing to my ears, even when they are more sensitive than normal - and sometimes those selections seem to have a calming/soothing effect  )

Just out of curiosity - did you notice if the sound level seemed too difficult when you were at the bar, or not?
Or is that something you noticed later?
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pattiluv

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Reply with quote  #62 
hi aqb,

i was fine going into the bar, it was around 5 pm, the start of happy hour.
now, i don't drink... except once in a blue moon.
the music was fairly low and i was fine except i had a tad to drink and i was getting higher than a kite!
(which is why i don't drink).
at some point i stopped - i hadn't had more than about four sips.
still, by 6, there were people arriving for dinner and the general noise level was up so i put in my 15's because i felt i lost my ability to judge anymore.
actually later on we went to an art opening and that was in a small room, lots of people, acoustic guitar, fairly loud, i was wearing the 15's.
i think that may have really sourced the ear pain more than the bar.
i was only in there for ten minutes max.

fortunately, it went away in a day.
it feels good to push my limits.

i am always back to this: h is such a mystery. how could i lose my ability to handle sound in one moment? why can't i process it any more? will it ever get better?

it does seem to be getting better, slowly, though.

oh yes, and the $64,000 question:
are flush toilets WAY louder than they were two and a half years ago? i don't recall having to hold my ears back then! now i am okay with many commodes, but some are like jet engines blasting off!

warmly,
pattiluv

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aQuieterBreeze

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Reply with quote  #63 
Hi Patti,

It's interesting what you mentioned about the sound level increasing -

you said-
i was fine going into the bar, it was around 5 pm,.......
.....by 6 there were people arriving for dinner and the general noise level was up so i put in my 15's because i felt i lost my ability to judge anymore.


I  think when people with hyperacusis go to a bar or club
(or even a party, or event - especially where alcohol is served  )
one should be aware that sound levels may increase over time.
And even those without these challenges,
should be aware that in places where the music is loud, or likely to be loud -
it could get louder  as the night goes on.
Music and volume levels can change and more people may show up -
And some places can get louder as the evening goes on.
And some may not notice that, in a place like a bar or pub,  especially if they have had a few drinks.
(I think alcohol could possibly have an effect on the way someone perceives sound and/or their awareness of sound levels, And for someone with these challenges it could be important to realize  that.)
 
And even though you only had a few sips .....
It sounds like you were very smart about things, and hopefully enjoyed it!

You mentioned -
actually later on we went to an art opening and that was in a small room, lots of people, acoustic guitar, fairly loud, i was wearing the 15's.
i think that may have really sourced the ear pain more than the bar.
i was only in there for ten minutes max.


I could see where that atmosphere could be challenging......

Do you think the sound level at the art opening would have been too difficult, for you if you had gone there first? Or only gone there?
 Sometimes our ears can get more sensitive to sound from the sound level in one situation, making other things in the way of sound more difficult to tolerate for awhile .....
 (At least that happens with me, if I am around sound that is too difficult, it can make other sound, that would have been ok - or perhaps challenging -more difficult or too difficult tolerate....)
 
 you mentioned -
 fortunately, it went away in a day.
it feels good to push my limits.


That is wonderful!

and you also mention-
i am always back to this: h is such a mystery. how could i lose my ability to handle sound in one moment? why can't i process it any more? will it ever get better?

If you figure out the mystery let us all know......
you are already processing it better than before - and yes it can get better - you and others are continually proving that.

And about those flush commodes - it's likely Not your imagination -
But who knows, maybe someone dedicated to taking their sound meter everywhere will let us know?

(I think you are right though and SOME of the newer ones may be quite a bit louder than the older style ones they used to have, as it seems I had noticed that even before getting these challenges, that some of the newer ones seemed pretty loud.)
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