The Hyperacusis Network Message Board
Sign up Latest Topics
 
 
 


Note: This topic is locked. No new replies will be accepted.


Reply
  Author   Comment  
pattiluv

Registered:
Posts: 828
Reply with quote  #1 
Hi all,
I am trying to decide if it's worth the risk to get an MRI. I can't seem to do a search so here is my post.

My doctor says it would be helpful and I'd like to do it but I'd hate to wind up with worse hyperacusis as a result. Geez... what a dilemma.

thanks in advance, all.

0
Jetcmc

Registered:
Posts: 9
Reply with quote  #2 
Hey there,
I have an MRI on Tuesday and must admit, I'm also complacent at the idea of annoying my tinnitus and H.
It says on the pamphlet that you can take a cd or mp3 player.
I'm gonna ask whether ear plugs themselves would be possible but I'm guessing not if the scan is for my hea itself.
Jet
0
Snow_World

Registered:
Posts: 194
Reply with quote  #3 
As far as I know, earplugs are always allowed in an MRI.  I have had two done for my brain alone and wore earplugs.  Sadly I had one done (for my ankle) after my hyperacusis had started and, even with earplugs, it made things worse.  Nine months after and I still haven't recovered.  Part of the problem might be that I initially overprotected my ears after the traumatizing MRI.

Jetcmc--How bad is your H and T right now?  Do you wear earplugs?

0
Rob

Registered:
Posts: 4,049
Reply with quote  #4 
Patti -

I had hyperacusis when a neurotologist insisted I get an MRI before he would continue to treat me.  He told me nothing about the importance of wearing hearing protection during the MRI and it made my hyperacusis go from moderate at best to severe.  Needless to say, I never saw that doctor again. 

I got another MRI about three years ago.  This time, I wore foam rubber earplugs with an NRR of 33.  I was perfectly fine and there wasn't the slightest impact on my hyperacusis. 

Here's a case where hearing protection is essential.  But if you wear properly inserted foam earplugs with a high NRR and you will be fine. 

Rob
0
Snow_World

Registered:
Posts: 194
Reply with quote  #5 
I disagree with Rob that you will fine for sure.  My loudness discomfort level as of a few months ago was in the 20's and low 30's, so if I were to have an MRI tomorrow with foam plugs with an NPR of 33 that would only bring my LDL's into the 60's at best, not nearly enough protection for something as loud as an MRI.

Patti--Obviously I don't know what your LDL's are, but be really careful.  If you decide to do it, remember that you can end the MRI at any time if it's too loud.

0
Rob

Registered:
Posts: 4,049
Reply with quote  #6 
Snow -

Did you have an LDL exam that measured your LDLs in the 20s and 30s?

Rob
0
Snow_World

Registered:
Posts: 194
Reply with quote  #7 
Yes I did, Rob.
0
Rob

Registered:
Posts: 4,049
Reply with quote  #8 
Snow -

I couldn't disagree with you more strongly about the MRI when using hearing protection.  My life was completely turned around when an MRI was administered to me without hearing protection.  You'd think if anyone would be warning someone about them it would be me.  I've had an MRI with and without earplugs, so I'm not taking a guess about the impact.   

Rob               
0
Snow_World

Registered:
Posts: 194
Reply with quote  #9 
Rob--Mine was turned around when I had an MRI *with* hearing protection.  Granted that for part of it, I used my own worn out foam plugs that I thought were still effective and may or not have been, but we don't know Patti's LDLs.  If hers are as low as mine are now, it would be foolish and harmful to undergo an MRI.  Rob, you are no more qualified than I to make a recommendation.
0
Panda

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 38
Reply with quote  #10 
I just want to tell you my experience with it.

Pros: A
coustic Tumor and other related ear/brain problems detection   
Cons: Loud sounds

I had MRI to rule out acoustic tumor.  I used regular yellow tube earplugs that the technician gave me which block about 20db.  I should have used my blue earplugs that can block about 33db.  

At the time, I told the technician that I have sound sensitivity, so he gave me two small folded towels to cover my ears over the earplugs.  Those towels did help decrease the sounds further more.  Overall, MRI sounds were OK for me with double protection, not so comfortable.  I did not have any hearing loss after the MRI.
0
Stormy

Registered:
Posts: 109
Reply with quote  #11 
When I had my two or three MRIs , LDLs had to do with Cholesterol. 
I know my own body and I know that those wimpy foam ear plugs are not worth jack.  I only trust full blown molded ear molds used for shooting.  Mine go all the way to the ear drum and fill the complete outer ear.

The noise was Still very uncomfortable,  I guess the sound was coming in through the mastoid bone.

Don't trust the techs, they do Not know about H, use as much protection as possiple.

It is loud!
0
Flapjack

Registered:
Posts: 22
Reply with quote  #12 
Patti, I'd say that if you have severe H, avoid the MRI. Unless you're expecting some important problems with your brain that absolutely needs to be checked.

If you have mild or light H, don't forget the earplugs. I think in some cases earmuffs are also allowed, in which case you should wear BOTH.
0
Rob

Registered:
Posts: 4,049
Reply with quote  #13 
A doctor has recommended an MRI to a patient.  The doctor thinks the MRI would be helpful and the patient herself would like to have it done. 

There is a way for anyone with hyperacusis to get thru an MRI and be safe, even though MRIs are very, very loud.  I've gone thru it the safe way and numerous other hyperacusics have gone thru it as well.  The bottom line is that when we wear properly inserted hearing protection with a good set of foam earplugs with an NRR of 32 or 33, or the equivalent hearing protection, plus any additional protection that is provided for us, such as earmuffs, we will be fine.  It may sound loud and we may feel uncomfortable, but we won't cause damage and we won't have further decreased tolerance.  If we don't wear any hearing protection, if we use a worn set of earplugs, or if the NRR is somewhere in the 20s, we run the risk of not being as protected as we ought to be and of therefore becoming more sensitive to sound.   

Rob    
0
Flapjack

Registered:
Posts: 22
Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob
A doctor has recommended an MRI to a patient.  The doctor thinks the MRI would be helpful and the patient herself would like to have it done.


How about this case.
A patient suffering from H asked whether he could resume going to concerts, using earplugs. His ENT doctor said yes, sure.
Both were happy with that.

Fail.
The doctor's advice aggravated his patient's H and ruined his life.
Because he was not aware - or didn't care - of bone conduction.


I'll state again that undergoing an MRI may be worth it, depending on the severity of one's H.
0
Rob

Registered:
Posts: 4,049
Reply with quote  #15 
There is a world of difference between the two scenarios, Flapjack.  In the first case, a doctor advises a patient to get an MRI for a health-related reason and the patient would like to do it but is looking for information about whether it will impact her hyperacusis.  In your example, the patient wonders if doing a loud social activity for pleasure would be OK.  Not only are these two entirely different situations, but most individuals with severe or even moderate hyperacusis wouldn’t realistically consider attending a concert until they were well on the way to re-establishing their tolerance of sound.  On the other hand, if there is a sufficiently good reason to have an MRI, even an individual with hyperacusis would consider following through with it provided it wouldn't further decrease his or her tolerance of sound.  With the proper protection, MRIs will not impact someone with hyperacusis the way you think.  
 
Rob      


0
sucuqu

Registered:
Posts: 197
Reply with quote  #16 
Patti i agree with flapjack;   if it is essential and you have been ok with ear protection---ok   but if it isnt i would strongly consider this decision.  no one can say you will be ok,  you know that right?  we can speculate with our own experiences but it may not be the same for you.

that said it would not matter what anyone said, i will never do any mri unless of course there is an emergency and i can not protest!  that from my past experiences which are not worth going in to---

just use your knowledge of yourself and  you know your reactions and current state right now the best.   email if you want-- Su
0
Flapjack

Registered:
Posts: 22
Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob
There is a world of difference between the two scenarios, Flapjack.


Rob,

What I sought to highlight is that doctors' advices, under any situation, are not always appropriate. That's why there are controversies even within the medical sector, because specialists all have their own points of view.

When I first met her, my ENT told me that there were several exams which would need to be done, however I wouldn't be able to perform some of them precisely because I have severe H. They'd be too loud.
And that made sense.
She also told me I'd recover quickly from H; that, I didn't agree with.

All information needs to be assessed critically... especially when their consequences can be critical.
0
Rob

Registered:
Posts: 4,049
Reply with quote  #18 

Flapjack -

 

You’re talking to someone whose life was shattered by an MRI and by paying attention to a particular well-regarded doctor’s advice about the necessity of having one immediately.  I wonder if you can imagine what it took to have another MRI after that, only this time with hearing protection.  Someone wrote earlier that I'm no more qualified than they are to offer a view on this.  The way I see it, I've earned the right to my views.  I've had an MRI with no hearing protection and an MRI with excellent hearing protection.  I have hyperacusis, and at one point it was severe.  I have worked very hard to re-establish my tolerance of sound.  The difference is I'm not talking from a place of fear.   

 

The responses to the original poster's good questions are filled with people’s fear.  It isn’t filled with critical thinking or with information.  Snow world, you write in another thread that you have had arguments with your folks about loud noise in your home.  If you can have arguments with people, your tolerance of sound is considerably higher than you think.  If your LDLs in the 20s and 30s were due solely to hyperacusis, you wouldn’t be able to tolerate anyone speaking to you no matter how quietly they did so because the human voice is much, much louder than 20 or 30 dBHL.  The sounds of their voices would be intolerable and so would practically any sound you encountered.  The reason your LDLs were so low when you had the test is based partly on your fear of sound.  I hope your clinician is working with you on treating that because phonophobia often develops as a result of hyperacusis but is treated differently from it. 

 

Rob      

0
Panda

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 38
Reply with quote  #19 
The MRI, that I was in, has a button that allows you to inform the technician to stop the machine, if you feel very uncomfortable.
0
Snow_World

Registered:
Posts: 194
Reply with quote  #20 
Rob--Now that your opinion has been challenged, it seems you are trying to discredit me and make me out to be a sick patient who doesn't understand my condition.  You bring up my other posts and make huge, yet false, assumptions.  So let's go ahead and reveal the truth:

1) Yes, once in awhile voices will be raised in my house, however, I'm always wearing earplugs when socializing with people.  Again, let's do the math.  My LDL's are in the 20' and 30's as of a few months ago, but I wear earplugs that bring those up to the 60's, maybe 70's at best.  Both my voice and those of others are still too loud even at conversational level.  I never said the sound didn't hurt when I argued. 

2) You seem like a knowledgeable person when it comes to H, but I'm appalled that you think you know about my LDL test.  The results had nothing to do with fear and everything to do with pain.  You don't need me to tell you what it feels like to hear sounds that are too loud.

If I can tolerate 70db at best in an MRI, how is that a safe procedure?  You still have not addressed this issue.  Do you know what your LDL's were when you went into the MRI the second time with protection?

Rob, you are often helpful, but in the future, please refrain from "diagnosing" me.  I'm willing to bet others here would appreciate it too.

0
Rob

Registered:
Posts: 4,049
Reply with quote  #21 

Snow world –  

 

According to Dr. Jastreboff, nobody’s LDLs in the 10s, 20s and 30s are due solely to hyperacusis.  It isn’t physically possible, according to him, and when someone’s LDLs are that low there is always a component of what he calls misophonia attached to it.  He believes misophonia is always a component for severe hyperacusis.  I’m not diagnosing you or trying to make you out to be “a sick patient”.  I’m suggesting you appear to have a fear of sound, in addition to your challenges with hyperacusis.  There is nothing unusual about that.  Some form of misophonia or phonophobia is a natural and understandable response to moderate or severe hyperacusis.  I’m also suggesting your fear of sound has colored your response in post #5 to the original poster’s question about MRIs.  

 

The louder MRIs can reach 120dB, although some MRIs are considerably less loud.  According to OSHA's listing of Permissible Noise Exposure, damage to the auditory system can be caused when we are exposed to sound at 115dB for 15 minutes or less per day.  That is why it is essential to wear hearing protection in MRIs.  But according to OSHA, we can be exposed to 90dB for up to eight hours per day without causing damage to the auditory system.  And that is why with the proper hearing protection an individual with hyperacusis can ensure he or she doesn't cause damage to the auditory system if an MRI is administered. 

 

Rob

0
MirjamVonk

Registered:
Posts: 206
Reply with quote  #22 

I know my LDL's and how they were accurately taken/measured.

It's back to school for Dr. Jastreboff when the theory of Willem Chr. Heerens will finally be accepted.

Mirjam


__________________
Mirjam Vonk
0
Johnloudb

Registered:
Posts: 1,951
Reply with quote  #23 
MirjamVonk,

Where can we read about  "A 3 compartment cochlear model?" 

He doesn't give an explanation on the web, only a book it looks like, that seems hard to find.

The Jastreboff model works just fine. And most people hyperacusis fear their symptoms and fear
pain and practice avoidance making there sensitivity worse. That's why people end up using
ear protection all the time.

John
0
Johnloudb

Registered:
Posts: 1,951
Reply with quote  #24 
Okay, I found his abstract here:
0
Snow_World

Registered:
Posts: 194
Reply with quote  #25 
Rob--

Neither a theory from Jastreboff, nor a persistent poster will change what I experienced during my LDL test.  My posts have not been "colored by fear," but by pragmatism.  I've already stated what I believe earlier and I stand by it.

Patti--

Did you go through with the MRI?  If so, how'd it go?  Hope you're doing alright!

0
pattiluv

Registered:
Posts: 828
Reply with quote  #26 
Hi all,
thanks for all the input.
for now i think i'll wait as long as i can before i get one ...

it would be extremely nice and very helpful... but i don't think i want to risk 120 db. - even with 35 db of protection.

i think the duration of sound exposure also plays a factor. and also the nature of the sound. some sounds are easier to tolerate than others... like a persistent banging like one might get in an mri.
even with ear protection.
however, it is good to know that people such as Rob have made it through and come out the other end.

I know Rob had a horrible experience with them so it says a lot that he would do one again.

again  - thanks, all!

0
pattiluv

Registered:
Posts: 828
Reply with quote  #27 
Hi all,
thanks for all the input.
for now i think i'll wait as long as i can before i get one ...

it would be extremely nice and very helpful... but i don't think i want to risk 120 db. - even with 35 db of protection.

i think the duration of sound exposure also plays a factor. and also the nature of the sound. some sounds are easier to tolerate than others (so it's not just the actual sound level alone) ...  the persistent banging in an mri could be tough for me even with ear protection.

however, it is good to know that people such as Rob have made it through and come out the other end.

I know Rob had a horrible experience with them so it says a lot that he would do one again.

again  - thanks, all!

0
jayjay

Registered:
Posts: 172
Reply with quote  #28 
An MRI will rule out any possible health problems that can't be detected in the doctor's office; that's essentially why your doctor has suggested it - he's stumped.

I had an MRI and it was the scariest, loudest and longest experience of my life! Even though I had ear plugs, I felt like I was going to pass out from the noise. After the MRI, my world was pretty terrible for a couple of weeks, but things got back to "normal."

Even so, there are things you can do to help: Check to see if there's a quiet MRI (some facilities have quieter machines), make sure it's an open MRI, and make sure to have ear protection!

It is a hard decision, but one you'll have to make on your own. Sorry if that sounds so unreassuring. It's the best I can do.
0
Nemi

Registered:
Posts: 129
Reply with quote  #29 
Hi Patti

yes, this is risky territory. 
If you do decide to do it, to rule out medical problems (something I would like to do too), I have 2 suggestions.

I live in Europe and here we can buy Boules de quies, they are white wax ear plugs and once it is a bit warm, it totally molds to your ear, as far as you want, where you want.  But my sister who lives in Canada has seen it at Walmart.  Let me know maybe I can send you a couple.  Anyway, they offer 27 dB of protection.  You could possible ADD the warmed wax around your normal earplugs, on the outside, I don't know, just a suggestion.

Also, I suggest you go in relaxed.  So many stories about people getting hyperacusis when they are stressed out.  I suggest taking something like klonopin, just the day of and a few days after....

good luck with the decision 
0
sucuqu

Registered:
Posts: 197
Reply with quote  #30 

Patti,  have you ever had an mri?

maybe a test run,   would they allow you to observe or be in an area where you could hear the types of noise   and   if your ear protection is good even on the outside.


I hear it is loud everywhere. i do not know how those techs do it.

just a thought.   su

0
deafleg

Registered:
Posts: 97
Reply with quote  #31 
I think this MRI argument has been taken way out of proportion.

I honestly feel  if you wear ear plugs you will fine.

You can also use some drugs to calm you down and reduce pain.

I have a drug remedy that I use in case of emergencies and it pretty much lets me function normal while its in my system.

.5mg xanax and 600mg of neurontin will help you get through it without a bother.

add ear plugs to that. not one sound will bother you.





0
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.



This message board is for informational purposes only. It is not intended to substitute for any medical advice. MANDATORY BOARD ETIQUETTE: 1. No personal attacks. 2. No profanity or use of inappropriate usernames. 3. No self solicitation of goods or services. 4 No discriminatory remarks based on race, gender, or religion. 5. Prohibitive postings include the following: discussing or suggesting the intent to end one's life, moderating or actions made by the moderators, and/or revealing personal information (full names, address, phone number). Rule infraction may result in either a warning or ban, depending on the severity. Kindness matters.