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stevenpsai

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Reply with quote  #1 
Hey guys, this is steve. I've benn suffering from mild noise-induced hearing loss, tinnitus and hyperacusis for 3 months now...

I'm getting this humming in my right ear (the one with hearing loss) that gets higher and higher in volume after these 'noise' events - music especially dance music, driving my car, laptop fan noise, pc running etc....

Did someone else get this as well??? will it ever go away because it's driving me nuts. music is my passion and i cannot even listen to more than 15 mins to music, my hearing becomes muffled,distorted and this low pitched hum comes roaring for long hours, then it settles on it's own.

any help please?
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markbergemann

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Reply with quote  #2 
Hi Steve,

My tinnitus sometimes jumps to being very much louder and then settles back in less than a minute.  This happens in response to some sounds or for seemingly no reason at all.  If I expose myself to sounds above my tolerance level, then the louder ringing, distortion, and numbness would last much longer.  My tinnitus really does not bother me much at all.  It is my hyperacusis (sensitivity to normal sounds) that is much more a problem.

My recommendation is to find a way to keep sounds below your tolerance level.  If you continue to regularly expose yourself to sounds above that level, you will probably not improve and may get steadily worse.  The protocols teach that we should not fear any sound, expose ourself to many sounds and never to complete silence, but still avoid sounds above our current tolerance level.  You may want to read comments by myself and others in the current "Please Help" and "Setbacks" threads.

A positive attitude is essential.

Mark 


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The Hyperacusis Network saved my life (that's the way I see it)
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stevenpsai

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Reply with quote  #3 
thankyou for your reply!

but still i'm not talking about the ringing. i have the ringing in both ears which is the same high pitched whine - similar to a crt monitor or tv when switching on.

I'm getting this very low pitched hum 'BRRRRRRRRRRR' which i'm getting only at night or after listening to some low level music. I'm getting this all the time even listening to music at 55db which is lower than speaking level which is 60-65-70db

any musicians around here maybe they can help?
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Johnloudb

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Reply with quote  #4 

Hi Steven,

Tinnitus can take on any number of forms incuding humming, buzzing, clicking....  . It's best to relax about your symptoms and it's not due to permanent damage. There a treatment for this condition called TRT, and I'd really recommend you learn all you can about TRT and the Jastreboff model for hearing here ( http://www.tinnitus.org ). Dr. Hazell can answer questions you have about TRT once you've studied all the material on his website ( help@tinnitus.org  ).

This is very treatable but it does require some learning to be successful at this. If you can you should try to get to a TRT trained doctor. 

Sounds like you have aversion to music. I also have had aversion to music and still do but have made very good progress. When you have aversion to a sound it limits the loudness and length of time you can listen to it. 

Like Mark pointed out, you shouldn't avoid the sounds but only listen the length of time that it doesn't cause you distress. So you might just listen shorter periods some days and then maybe every week or two, try to listen a bit longer. And always set the volume at a comfortable level.

Avoid silence when possible. This is not always possible. 

But do get help! There is a list of TRT doctors here:

http://www.chat-hyperacusis.net/post?id=3334680

In my opinion the biggest mistake people make in dealing with hyperacusis is not learning all they can about treating hyperacusis. There are a couple other conditions often related to hyperacusis: Phonophobia (fear of sounds) and Misophonia (dislike of sounds), and I've had/have both. These can be very difficult to treat, and best to get informed on how to make progress.

Best,

John



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aQuieterBreeze

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Reply with quote  #5 
Hi Steve,

Though I'm not a musician....and I'm not in the medical field...
For people with hyperacusis, shifts in dynamic range can be difficult to tolerate -
so while dance music may be difficult to tolerate for now, maybe something else would be easier on the ears...
and sometimes what we are able to tolerate and what sounds good to our ears may not be what we think it would be.
(When I first started listening to music again, some things i thought should have been easy to tolerate, and easy on my ears - were not -
but other selections and artists were much easier on my ears, and alot more tolerable. 
So, i listened to what sounded good to my ears, that I was able to tolerate. 
And at levels and settings that I could tolerate as well.)
And when i first started listening to music again, after a long time of not doing so - some selections made my tinnitus more noticeable, so I choose selections to begin with - that I was able to tolerate, that minimized that.
Now i can listen to a whole lot more in the way of music, and listen at a higher volume, than the barely audible that i started out with -  and do not usually notice it having much of an effect on my tinnitus.

Also music in compressed formats, may not sound as good, or be as tolerable when one's hearing is more sensitive.
Some have found that good quality professionally recorded cds or albums sound better to their ears than the same music in a compressed format....
And the settings that are used can make a difference sometimes too -
In my case I am more sensitive to bass, so if i had subwoofers, they would be turned off -
and I also leave off any options for "enhanced bass"

Also, some have mentioned that leaving surround sound turned off, makes listening to music or TV more tolerable-
and someone even  mentioned listening in mono, though I listen in stereo ....

We are all different in what we can tolerate though.
And to be able to listen to music is wonderful, in alot of ways - and it sounds beautiful,
And  i can listen to and enjoy some things I thought would have been impossible for me to listen to, at one time :-) 
I quit listening to music for a very long time- in part because I could not tolerate percussion.
And everything sounded too loud -
And at one time really thought i'd  never be able to listen to any rock music ever again,  so when I was able to listen to some things by The Rolling Stones and something by The Who well over a year ago now - it made me realize part of how much better things can get,  And though i do not listen to much by The Who or The Rolling Stones, 
some of what i can and do listen to, by other groups, amazes me. And sounds really beautiful .....
Though some selections and artists are still too difficult for me to tolerate, but more is tolerable all the time, as i keep working on it......

P.S. The Who are playing at halftime for the Superbowl - and I hope to be able to listen and enjoy at least some of it.
And my car radio was set to NPR for a very long time - because I was not able to listen to music....things can get alot better!
And many around here are doing much better than they were at one time.
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aQuieterBreeze

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Reply with quote  #6 
Hi John,
you mentioned-
When you have aversion to a sound it limits the loudness and length of time you can listen to it.

While i can see where that would be true,
when one has a decreased tolerance to sound, that is due to hyperacusis
the way i understand it - one may be limited because of the volume and/or the frequency ranges of the sound, they are trying to listen to, like with  music,
or perhaps can not tolerate- as in other sounds  - until they have improved their tolerances to being able to tolerate that frequency range, at that particular volume.....
(it does not have to be because of an aversion to it, though that CAN happen too - and also  perhaps independently of hyperacusis )
I think that is one of the confusing aspects of these challenges-
that some may be able to tolerate some sounds at a louder volume, but certain frequencies are more difficult even though they are less in volume....or perhaps low in volume.
And sometimes that may be due to an aversion to the sound, and sometimes maybe not -
maybe just a lack of tolerance at that frequency. Though a lack of tolerance for sound after awhile could turn into an aversion....especially if those sounds were very difficult for one's hearing/ears.
Just my thoughts though......like i said, i'm not in the medical field.
And others know more about this stuff than I do.
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Johnloudb

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
the way i understand it - one may be limited because of the volume and/or the frequency ranges of the sound, they are trying to listen to, like with music,
or perhaps can not tolerate- as in other sounds - until they have improved their tolerances to being able to tolerate that frequency range, at that particular volume.....

(it does not have to be because of an aversion to it, though that CAN happen too - and also perhaps independently of hyperacusis )


Hi Breeze,

Yeah, I think you're right. He said he can listen to it for 15 minutes okay, so I assumed he had aversion to it. But, it is also causing ringing later on, so maybe just decreased tolerance or maybe some of both.  

I'm not a doctor either, of course. And even if I was it wouldn't be saying much .... just a jab at the many ENT's who stick there head in the sand. 

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aQuieterBreeze

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Reply with quote  #8 
Hi John,

Music can contain alot of frequency ranges, and peaks in volume- and shifts from loud to soft....
those things can be difficult for someone with hyperacusis to tolerate, until one rebuilds their tolerances.   But some music may not contain such wide ranges, or peaks in volume - and some music, like other sounds, or levels of sound, or  vocal ranges -  may be alot easier to tolerate for one with these challenges - 
In my case with music there were a lot of selections i thought would be easy on my ears, but they were not. It took me a really long time to be able to tolerate anything i tried to listen to - on some Simon and Garfunkel cds- I really wanted to hear a couple tunes - and had no aversion to them at all - but they were too difficult for my hearing/ears. And even when i was finally able  to listen to one selection,   i had really wanted to hear - Scarborough Fair, and it made me really happy to be able to hear it -
it was quite awhile  until i could tolerate another selection i really wanted to listen to....Bridge Over Troubled Water
But I would try every so often and if it was too difficult, just put something else on.

The same was true with some folk music i tried - I thought it would be easy on my ears...
and when i could listen to some selections on that cd - there were others that  took awhile until I was able to tolerate them. And another selection took much longer still. But I can listen to it now :-)

Other selections and artists I thought may be more difficult in some cases were  easier on my ears. And alot more tolerable.
Also when listening to music, one MAY be able to tolerate some selections on a cd or album - but others may be more difficult. (or in some cases too difficult)  That is something i noticed......
when starting to listen to music again. And still, some selections on albums are too difficult, as i keep working on expanding what i am able to listen to ----- but others are not as difficult as they were at one time, ones that were intolerable in many cases are not anymore, and they sound beautiful to my ears. But if my hearing/ears get more sensitive they can be more difficult again ---until the increased sensitivity fades.
Though certain selections I have found can be soothing to my ears at times as well.
(and sometimes a few are soothing - even when other selections are more difficult, or too difficult  to tolerate, and my  hearing is more sensitive than it usually is )

But we are all different in what we are able to tolerate. And others may not have such difficulty with frequency ranges, but more difficulty with overall volume -
My challenge has been with both though.

Though I am able to listen at a higher volume overall - than i started with, and do  turn some things up these days - the amount of time i can listen at a louder volume - much louder than I usually listen to music at - is limited - (and if the music shifts in intensity and/or perhaps frequency range  - like in the PBS special i mentioned in another thread -
(it went from something acoustic  to harder rock, louder and more electric )
it can get to be too difficult very quickly - especially if i was already pushing my limits to the max to begin with. which i was at that time. But then again, that special was a live concert by some artists, that at one time I thought i'd never be able to listen to again - so to be able to listen to any of it was a joy. And to be able to thoroughly enjoy some of it - was wonderful - as they did a very beautiful version of one tune i had not heard for a LONG time. )

But the amount of time i can listen to music (that I am able to tolerate, and at settings that Are comfortable for me) at a lower volume, that is very comfortable to my hearing /ears-  at this point is usually unlimited. Providing that i am not trying to listen to selections that are too difficult for me to tolerate. (and my hearing/ears are not more sensitive than normal) And what is a very comfortable volume can change......

This stuff can be very confusing though.....and the way i go about things may not be what is right or appropriate for others, and i can't say what is .......
we are all different, and i am very happy to have found some things that have been helpful for me.

Someone mentioned listening to disco at one time, and at that time - i thought - no way -
i'd never be able to tolerate that. Too much beat and percussion.
Just to be able to tolerate it at all - seemed completely impossible-
(at the time i was somewhat amazed that anyone with these callenges COULD listen to it )
So when some disco music came on the radio, quite awhile after that   - and i was able to listen to it - it really surprised me. And like when i heard other things, that at one time i thought i'd never be able to listen to - it made me smile to know how much better things can get.
Though other types of music are much more my style - and those are what i listen to...and really enjoy. And more is tolerable all the time.

I do not force what i listen to, (by trying to listen to things that are much too difficult for me yet) just listen to what sounds good and is tolerable to my ears and keep working on it......if something does not sound good or is too difficult, I'll put on something I can tolerate and try that other selection, or artist,  at another time......

Also --
Sometimes time is a factor, when it comes to sound - To the best of my knowledge,   it does not have to be an aversion for someone with hyperacusis to be able to tolerate something in the way of sound for a short amount of time but have more difficulty with longer exposure .....
though perhaps it could be in some cases.

These challenges can be very confusing, and
when someone says music is their passion, I would not assume they have an aversion to it .....
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stevenpsai

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Reply with quote  #9 
this is maddening!!!

I got the humming again after listening to some low level music!!! now i noticed something! if i move my head fast like when a dog does to throw away water from his body, THE HUMMING STOPS while shaking my head!!! I also notice that a lot of clicking happens in that ear as well!!

As soon as i stop, the humming returns! this is 100% something related within the middle ear oscicles or stapedial muscles....

This is really getting on my nerves because even with ear plugs i'm getting this!!
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LizH

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Reply with quote  #10 
Hi Steve,

I'm no expert, so this is just a wild guess which might be totally wrong.  Anyway, is there a possibility it could be stapedial myoclonus?  Have any of your medicos considered this?  I have been told that that is what I have, a sound that goes ddddddddddd..... ( it is quite fast and regular) especially after moving my head.  It's more like a vibration or a buzz than a hum, but you did describe yours as Brrrrrrrrrr.  Some people describe it as being like a moth flapping its wings rapidly. Perhaps you could look into it.

Good luck, Liz.
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aQuieterBreeze

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Reply with quote  #11 
Hi Steve,
I'm not sure what the humming you notice is-
but it is not unusual for someone to notice that their tinnitus sounds louder when using hearing protection.

By low level music - do you mean low in volume?
Or low as in bassy - even if not loud?

Hi Liz,
Thanks for explaining that. (what you have in addition to other challenges)
 Is it something that is affected by stress?
IF you take steps that help you reduce stress, does that help with it?
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Johnloudb

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Sometimes time is a factor, when it comes to sound - To the best of my knowledge, it does not have to be an aversion for someone with hyperacusis to be able to tolerate something in the way of sound for a short amount of time but have more difficulty with longer exposure .....
though perhaps it could be in some cases.

These challenges can be very confusing, and

when someone says music is their passion, I would not assume they have an aversion to it .....


Hi Breeze,

I also take things slowly, I think we probably overcome these sound sensitivity challenges in about the same way. But having had phonophobia I have to deal a lot with the pychological aspect of this problem as well. 

A person doesn't have to have a dislike of sound to develop an aversion to it. Most anyone can develop aversion to a sound when it repeatedly causes them problems. Especially when people find there symptoms threatening.

The noise produced by my stereo, that first caused me hyperacusis and repeatedly hurt my ears caused me to develop an aversion to all reproduced music for a time. But, I kept listening to my car stereo for short periods of time and overcame that aversion. This was before I had phonophobia.

Quote:
this is maddening!!!

I got the humming again after listening to some low level music!!! now i noticed something! if i move my head fast like when a dog does to throw away water from his body, THE HUMMING STOPS while shaking my head!!! I also notice that a lot of clicking happens in that ear as well!!

As soon as i stop, the humming returns! this is 100% something related within the middle ear oscicles or stapedial muscles....

This is really getting on my nerves because even with ear plugs i'm getting this!!

Steve,

Your symptoms are common among people with hyperacusis. I've heard just about every sound you can imagine in my head including humming and thumping. When I first had and my hyperacusis first started getting worse, I'd grab my ear lobe and my ear would squeal. I could also hear the electrical sounds in my brain, like combing my hair would sound like chimes.

Thing is, the brain is globally linked and increased to sensitivity sound can cause increased gain in all sensory systems. And it's not permanent, or doesn't have to be. You can make progress.

Given that the stereo bothers you at any volume could indicate phonophobia (fear of sounds). There is a very strong psychological component to how we hear. And you can read about this here ( http://www.tinnitus.org ). And once you've read everything on this site you can email Dr. Hazell ( help@tinnitus.org  ) with questions about TRT and Jastreboff model. 

This may not be a popular topic on this board and people often don't like to think about psychological aspect of how we hear, probably because there symptoms are real and physical.

If you haven't seen a TRT doctor you should probably do that if possible. Well, I can tell you it's best to learn all you can about hyperacusis seek out help. There is help available, and it is treatable.

If you're using ear protection and avoiding sounds this can also cause increased senstivity.

Other signs of phonophobia include: Sounds bother you regardless of sound level, most  high frequency sounds bother you, or most complex sounds bother you.

Anyway, just my thoughts on the subject. I've got the best advice from Dr. Hazell so I'd recommend learning his site and ask him you questions. And also try to get to a TRT doctor.

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Johnloudb

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Reply with quote  #13 

Breeze,

Stress and neurological problems can cause stapedial myoclonus. I found this nice description of the problem here.

http://members.tripod.com/lisa_mapes-ivil/stapedial_myoclonus/

Thanks for bringing that up Liz.

Best,

John

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LizH

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Reply with quote  #14 
Hi Breeze,

Actually I've done a lot of things to reduce stress and anxiety to no avail, but fortunately this myoclonus is a fairly minor problem for me.  I brought it up as a possibility, but as I think most of us know, there are many different sounds and sensations we experience with H and T and not all of us experience the whole array.  Although there are many commonalities, no 2 persons are exactly the same.   Also there is the added difficulty of describing them accurately.  And finally, there are as yet no explanations let alone cures for the majority of them.  Sometimes we are lucky and some of them disappear with time but usually without us knowing why.  The "land of hyperacusis" is still a land of mysteries.  Ho hum, that's the way it is at present, but hopefully one day, as Guflu says, it will all make sense.
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LizH

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Reply with quote  #15 
Thanks John, I've read that article before and I suppose it is movement that is the stimulus for me, but it does also list noise as a possible stimulus.  Too bad the article doesn't describe the sensation it causes which would be helpful in diagnosis.
Liz.
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stevenpsai

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Reply with quote  #16 
LizH

I have exactly as youi describe!!! I actually have a vibration inside my ear that's causing the hum. I can feel the vibration happening literally. It is getting boosted when hearing to low frequency sounds in music like bass and kick drums.

Maybe i have a stapedial myoclonus in my right ear AS WELL!!!

This is really maddening because i cannot go out and socialise with others. 15 minutes of noise is making my right ear vibrate and hum like mad.

I also noticed that the humming stops when someone speaks to me or a sound is made. The high pitched tinnitus i have in both ears stays the same even when someone speaks to me or a sound is made.

This humming is starting in complete or quasi silence. and again I ACTUALLY FEEL SOMETHING VIBRATING IN MY EAR!

anyone like this with any tips?
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LizH

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Reply with quote  #17 
Hi Steve,
I suppose you would have to ask an ENT about it.  I found it useful to contact ENTs by email before making an appointment to check out whether or not they are interested in these problems. I didn't go into all the details - just a brief mention of hyperacusis.   Once I got a reply "Happy to see you" so I made an appointment and went, but with others I got no reply at all so I assumed they were not familiar and not interested so I didn't bother to consult them.  It would most probably have been a complete waste of time and money.  Once I relied on a GP's recommendation and having got the referral and made the appoitment, I then found myself confronted by a specialist who told me that I should go to a psychiatrist.  So, do whatever you can to check out the specialist first.  Having said that, even if you find one who identifies the problem for you, they don't always have any tips about treatment.  Some on this message board have undergone surgery to cut the tendons of the stapedial muscles, and for a couple it was successful, but for others it was a disaster.  I don't think much is known about these brain/nervous system things yet and the surgical approach is one I'd avoid because you can't reverse it.  That's just my personal opinion.

Also, the clicking you describe may be due to the action of the tensor tympani muscle which is attached to the inside of the eardrum.  I get that clicking, popping, crackling sound too immediately after certain sounds including even my own voice.  It seems that these 2 muscles, the stapedial and the tensor tympani, have become way too sensitive and overactive.  Their movement causes changes of pressure inside the ear which we hear as sound because that's the way the ear is supposed to work. 

Sorry I can't be more positive about treatment, but maybe understanding what is happening makes it less scary and annoying.

Good luck Steve.
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aQuieterBreeze

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Reply with quote  #18 
Steve,
you mentioned -
I can feel the vibration happening literally. It is getting boosted when hearing to low frequency sounds in music like bass and kick drums.

I won't try to guess what yo are experiencing -
But if you notice those symptoms when listening to kick drums-
or bass - maybe it wold help to try other types or selections of music for now.
And/or  perhaps try at a lower volume....And if you have subwoofers turned on, maybe it would help to turn them off?
Deep or loud bass can sometimes shake the floor, and sound can be transmitted by bone conduction. Not just through one's ears......

And when it comes to percussion-
In my case it was not only drums i could not tolerate - it was ANY percussion at all -
tapping on a counter top - someone hammering, anything- any percussion......
and everything in the world sounded too loud - or much louder than it should anyway.
And not being able to tolerate percussion seems to be VERY common, among folks with hyperacusis.
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LizH

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Reply with quote  #19 
Steve, me again - I've just had an idea!

First, I was thinking that I didn't explain that thing about stapedial myoclonus and tensor tympani syndrome very clearly - very sloppy of me. Sorry.  So, what I meant was that anything, be it a change in pressure on the tympanic membrane from an external sound, or a twitchy tensor tympani muscle or stapedial muscle internally, which sets the ossicles in motion, will get processed as a sound.

Okay, from there it occurred to me that if the sound/buzz/vibration/hum that you hear is from the myoclonus (ie is not a tinnitus sound), then theoretically it should be possible for it to be heard with a stethoscope over your ear.  So, why don't you ask your GP or ENT or audiologist to see if he/she can also hear the sound you complain of? 
 Is your GP youngish?  The reason why I ask is that sometimes I have my doubts about the acuteness of hearing of some of the older doctors.  The only doc. who ever used a stethoscope on me was close to 70 and the bonehead put it over my eye (I swear I am not making this up!).  I didn't have the courage to ask when he had last had his own hearing checked, or what he expected to hear through my eye, but apparently he heard nothing. ( He was the same one who told me to go to a psychiatrist).  None of the others ever used a stethoscope - they only looked into my ear with the light telescope.

Good luck, Liz.


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stevenpsai

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Reply with quote  #20 
Hi Thankyou for your replies guys!!

Now i noticed another thing!!!

Just been on the phone with my girlfriend and i'm using my better ear which is the left ear. My girlfreind has a voice that literally vibrates my ear drums.

Now when she was speaking into my left ear, MY RIGHT EAR WAS VIBRATING AS WELL!!!! WTF!!! HOW CAN THIS BE????

If the sounds are going completely into my left ear, how come my right ear is having the hyperacusis's ear drum vibration effect too?????

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stevenpsai

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Reply with quote  #21 
about the ENT's. I live in MALTA and ve'been to 7 ENT's. They hardly know about tinnitus! hyperacusis and stapedial myoclonus i think is a mystery to them

I'm thinking of going abroad to a specialist in tinnitus and hyperacusis. I heard there's a clinic in london. Maybe i'll try that one. If someone can refer me to someone in the uk that would be great thanks!
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Johnloudb

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Reply with quote  #22 

Hi Steve,

There is crosstalk between the right and left auditory cortex. And the brain is globally linked. I went through a two week period when I could feel sound go in my left ear and travel across the top of my head and I perceived all sound in my right ear.  

stapedial myoclonus isn't a disease. It's just a symptom related to some other  condition, likely hyperacusis in your case. 

Quote:
I'm thinking of going abroad to a specialist in tinnitus and hyperacusis. I heard there's a clinic in london.

Steve, that's great to hear. There is help for hyperacusis and you need to try to relax about your symptoms. 

Hyperacusis can cause psoriasis, neuropathy, eczema, tensor tympani syndrome, and I've had all of these to some extent off and on.

The problem was increased sensory gain, at least it was for me. I followed Dr. Hazell's advice to me and very slowly listened more to these sounds that caused me problems and thought good thoughts. But,  listening more to sounds you tolerate well, and following a path of desensitization will also help. Which is best accomplished with help of a TRT trained doctor, of course. 

Also, anxiety over these symptoms will just acerbate things. 

As I mentioned above, if you haven't already, I'd highly recommend reading all the information here: http://www.tinnitus.org  

It may be helpful until you can get to a TRT doctor.

I wish you the best of Luck,

John


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Johnloudb

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Reply with quote  #23 

Quote:
If someone can refer me to someone in the uk that would be great thanks!

Jacqui Sheldrake 

Chief Audiologist

Tinnitus and Hyperacusis Centre

32 Devonshire Place

London W1G 6JL

UK

j.sheldrake@ucl.ac.uk



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Violinist

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Reply with quote  #24 

Hi Stevenpsai !  When I talked on the phone with it at my right ear, I used to get a thunder-like sound in my left ear, but not in my right !  I have had lots of different sounds in my ears, but they have disappeard when I have gotten better.


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