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Fran123

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Posts: 14
Reply with quote  #1 
Has anyone had experience with having dental work done while being under sedation or completely out, (dentistry asleep) how has this affected your Hyperacusis and Tinnitus afterward?
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ateacher

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Posts: 23
Reply with quote  #2 
I am intersted in this topic, too. Sooner or later I have to see my dentist and I have been there since
I have developed my HA. So I am little bit afraid of my next visit to the dentist.
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Fran123

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Posts: 14
Reply with quote  #3 
Don't be afraid of going to the dentist,  they can take x-rays and do a visual examination of your teeth without having any noise and the cleaning can be done with a dental pic intrument that causes minor noise and it is far better to know your status so you can take simple steps now to prevent a more serious condition developing were you will have no choice but to have noisy dental drilling.  

There have been some wonderful developments in the field in the last number of years. One is the laser whichdoes not contact the teeth hence there is no conduction noise to the ear,  much ,  much better than the drill.  I have had the laser and it makes a rapid popping sound but it not too loud very manageable and the dentist can take frequent breaks.   

I am facing some dentistry asleep soon and I am very concerned what affect it will have on my H&T ,  in Jack Vernon's book "Tinnitus Q & A" he states that it will not matter whether you are under sedation or not as far as the after affects are concerned,  he goes on mention 2 cases were patients had major work done on their jaw while out and they had no after effects on their H.  

Any experiences would be very helpful.   
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olms

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Posts: 321
Reply with quote  #4 
Fran123:

1. Sedation is not going to help, as "hearing and anesthesia" (march, 2013) study below shows:

                  "Auditory perceptions, hearing sounds or voices were mentioned

                   by all patients (45 of 45)." (Hearing and Anesthesia.) (march, 2013)
                     (www.oxfordjournals.org)

 _____________________________________________________________________________

     Dental drill is going to be:

          "The noise levels measured varied between 64 and 97 dB(A).
                     (indiana journal of dental research)

___________________________________________________________________

        Compare sound of dentist drill (85 decibels or higher at the higher levels) with your sound tolerance level, which can be gotten from the decibel level chart on first page of this website (such as 60-70 dBs for normal conversation), and then you decide how that stacks up with your hyperacusis.

     Not very well, as one can attest from the experiences of some of those on this website who have been to the dentist. 

       Ear protection won't help, as ear plugs keep sound in and make the drill louder, since the drilling is coming from inside the ear drum out.

        Ear plugs and/or over-the-head ear phones only reduce sound that is coming from outside the ear drums.

        Electronic head phones, also only protect from sound coming from the outside in, and only serve to make the drill sound louder, as attested by one h person on this website some 6 -8 mnths ago who wore both earplugs and electronic headphones and was very adament about impossible the situation was.

       Only protection for most h people is: A. Agreement with dentist is that drill will be cut on for only 1/2 second, then stopped, with patient to get out of the chair, go to the wiating room, and discuss with cohart whether to continue. Cohart should be in the dentist room to make sure the drill is stopped after 1/2 second, and patient is allowed to get out of chair and go to the waiting room.

2. If drill too loud, second option is to consider having the affected tooth or teeth pulled.

3. Prevention. Brush, floss, rinse with mouth wash. Any noticed tingling between teeth, which might indication of start of a cavity, should be attended to quickly, such as flossing at least between affected teeh.

4. Elimination of sugar from diet. Many foods contain small amount of sugar, but foods such as dessert, candy, soda, jelly, you take at your own risks. I noticed at even a little jelly on a peanut butter cracker caused my teeth to tingle.

     Since stopping the jelly, the tingling between teeth has been greatly reduced, and if I notice any, I floss between those teeth immediately. And the tingling stops!   

      From seeing a "don't eat honey" sign many years ago at my dentist, I wonder if dentists know that you can comsume sugar, but you can't brush it all out? That's the thinking I used with the jelly.

     I wondered if simply by eating the jelly and then brushing my teeth, I thought I was OK. I wasn't. I wasn't brushing it all out, so I stopped eating jelly, also, and I noticed a great improvement. 

          I'm also a professional water rinser after brushing my teeth, I pretend I have sugar between my teeh and I see how much I can rinse out with water, by squeshing it between my teeth 3 or 4 times, then repeating the process.

                      Tom   

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olms

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Posts: 321
Reply with quote  #5 
This "Dental Drilling" tread appears in both Friendly Chat and New Messages forums. I am repeating a post added March 1, 2014 by Essayons on the Friendly Chat section here in the New Messages section, so those interested in that topic can keep up with these comments. I am also repeating here my reply to Eassayons that also appears in Friendly Chat.
                            Tom
____________________________________________________________________

(Essayons writes in Friendly Chat on March 1, '14)

I went to the dentist just the other day. The cleaning treatment I had used a drill-like tool. I was doing okay with the noise until she got to the very back tooth and the sound transmitted through the bone to my ear. I jerked back and that was the end of that. She went old school with the rest of the cleaning treatment.

The fear I have is that my fillings won't outlast me, and they will need to be replaced. Just the cleaning was horrific and I kept waking up in a panic dreaming about the sound of the drill. I had never had a problem with going to the dentist, but after that appointment, I'm very anxious about going again.

I guess I'm most interested in finding out if the drill does anything permanent or not. If I ever need dental work done in the future, I would want to be knocked out so I don't hear the drill. I would anticipate that I would have a set-back in my LDLs, but at least I wouldn't have the memory of hearing the drill which causes me anxiety now. Thoughts/feedback??

____________________________________________________________

 
olms

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 239
 #4 
Essayons:

Interesting account of your trip to the dentist with hyperacusis. Others can learn from this, or not, as they choose.

1. You noted when the dentist got to one of the back teeth, the drill was suddenly too loud for your ears. You jerked back and the dentist stopped drilling.

In the account by the hyperacusis person on this board 6-8 months ago, when the dental patient with h showed signs that the drill was too loud, the dentist kept drilling for many minutes, prolonging the agony and the ear damage, so you got a break when the dentist stopped drilling.

2. You could have told in advance that the drilling wasn't going to work, as noted in my 2-19-'14 post below on this thread. Look on the search engine for how loud the machine is you're thinking of being around (in this case dental drill from 64 to 97 decibels, average might be 85), look at your sound tolerance level at the decibel chart on front page of this website (average conversation about 60-70 dBs), compare the two numbers then decide for yourself about whether you want to be around that machine.

You don't have to wait until you get near the machine to have the gosh-awful experience. You can predict that by putting the two numbers together, and then you decide what you think. They're your ears, it's your decision. 

3. You said one of your fears is you will outlive your fillings. That is a true concern. In my case, about 2 years ago, a filling did come out. One of the things I try to guard against, is that, when I floss my teeth, especially on the back teeth or any teeth that have a filling, I try to floss down only. If I floss back up, the floss may catch a corner of a filling and pull it out. The first time it's not going to do it. The 100th or 200th time, it might pull out the filling.

Somehow, I may have forgotten not to floss up between 2 teeth that have a filling, or it may have come out after having been in there for 10 or 20 years, the filling came out. I told my dentist I couldn't take a drill because of my h. So, she couldn't replace the filling, for that takes a drill, she said.

She said, "We're just going to leave it without a filling. If you don't get a cavity, you're alright. If you get a cavity, we've got a problem." That was 2 years ago, it may have been 3, and I haven't gotten a cavity.

I told her the tooth where the filling fell out had sharp edges and it cut my tongue a little. She didn't know what to do for all she could think of was a drill. I already knew what the solution was: finger nail file (or emory board). She said, "In all-female office, we're bound to have a finger nail file," and that's what she quietly used to dull down the sharp edges of that tooth where the filling fell out. 

You have to think ahead of these doctors and dentists, because they're not as aware of h as you are.

4. You noted that you were going to be knocked out the next time you had any drilling. I don't think it will work, for you will still hear the drill. As I noted in my 2-19 post below, from looking this subject up on the search engine, in one test, all 45 patients who had gone under sedation, later reported they could hear sounds or voices.

5. What I'm trying to do because of this is to try to prevent cavities by basically eliminating sugar from my diet.

As noted below in my post, I don't eat deserts, candy, soda, etc.

I stopped eating jelly, also when I noticed tingling between two or more of my teeth (especially at night when I laid down to sleep), thinking that was a pre-cacvity situation. I would floss immediately when I felt the tingling between two of my teeth, and it would stop, think goodness. Then I decided to quit eating jelly on my peanut butter crackers, and the tingling reduced by 85 per cent or more. It was the fruit sugar in the jelly.

I also rinse diligently with water, squeshing between my teeth after I brush, imagining the water going between my teeth and washing out any sugar particles left over from the brushing (and flossing as often as I can, plus gargling with mouth wash after I brush and floss). 

I think prevention is as good as we're going to get with this dental thing.
 
                                Tom
     



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Essayons

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Posts: 14
Reply with quote  #6 
Thank you for the response. I had read your post before I posted. When you said sedation, I do not think of that as being "knocked out". I would not hear the drill at all if I'm under anesthesia (aka "knocked out"). When I was younger I had teeth pulled for braces and I was out - no sounds, just asleep. So I think we are talking about two different things when we say "knocked out" and "being sedated." I know I won't be able to hear the drill when I'm knocked out, but I am wondering about the H afterwards.

I was totally fine with the sound of the drill in all parts of my mouth EXCEPT that last tooth, where the sound transmitted through my bone. At that point, the drill sound had been going on for about 5 min and I was fine... then one zap in that last part and it was unbearable.

lastly: fillings do NOT last forever, regardless if you floss and practice good oral hygeine (though no doubt, better flossing, etc. will extend that time as much as possible). Since I already have fillings, these will break down over time. I anticipate I will still be alive in 15 years from now (the lifetime of a filling). This is what I am wondering about... that till WILL come. I am anxious about what I can do at that time.
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olms

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Posts: 321
Reply with quote  #7 
Essayons:

Interesting discussion of dentistry, and any possible solutions. My solution is to try and avoid the dentist drill because of its noise (85 to 90 decibels, from how I determine data on the search engine on that topic, and which I've repeated here in my 2-19-2014 account on this thread).

My hope is to avoid the dental drill by trying to avoid cavities, as again discussed in my 2-19 post. Your theory is sedation so you won't hear the drill. I'm saying sedation won't work. Better to discuss it now than to find out wrong, one way or the other, later.

The figure that backs up my thinking about sedation won't work, is the one discussed also in my 2-19 post which states:

          "Auditory perceptions, hearing sounds or voices were mentioned

                   by all patients (45 of 45)." (Hearing and Anesthesia.) (march, 2013)
                     (www.oxfordjournals.org)

___________________________________

This means to me, that "all [anesthesia] patients (45 of 45) reported "hearing sounds or voices" while under anesthesia. And this is reported in the Oxford Journal website. I'm going to put my ears up against the Oxford Journal? No way. 

I had my wisdom teeth taken out many years ago and was under sedation. Gentle whisper, I may not have notice, if someone had spoken in a loud voice, I think I would have heard it. If someone had worked on my teeth with an 85 to 90 dBs or louder drill, one inch from my ear drums, I know I would have heard that.

I wouldn't put any credence on that saving me in a dental situation. My nerves wouldn't take it for one thing, under sedation where I couldn't say stop if it was too loud. No, I don't want that situation.

I agree, filling will fall out. But when I lost a filling, I was concerned also, for the dentist told me, "If you don't get a cavity, no problem; if you do get a cavity, we've got  problem." Yeah, I was worried, but I'm telling you, I've gone 2 or 3 years, brushing, flossing when I can and gargling with mouth wash when I floss, and rinsing really well by forcing water between my teeth in hopes of getting any sugar out, and I've had no cavities.

So, if I can go, say, 2 1/2 years with no problem (cavity), I can go 2 1/2 more years with the same brushing, etc., and that's 5 years. If I can go 5 years, why not 10 years. Just keep repeating the process that go you through the first year. As President Franklin Rooselvelt said during the Depression to help calm down Americans, "We have nothing to fear but fear itself."

And I say to you, "You have nothing to fear if you keep brushing, etc., your teeth." And quit eating sugar, and thereby tempting fate. That doesn't come with a guarantee. I'm just saying, in my view, you can possibly make it without a few fillings if you practice good dental health.       

                        Tom


____________________________________________


Thank you for the response. I had read your post before I posted. When you said sedation, I do not think of that as being "knocked out". I would not hear the drill at all if I'm under anesthesia (aka "knocked out"). When I was younger I had teeth pulled for braces and I was out - no sounds, just asleep. So I think we are talking about two different things when we say "knocked out" and "being sedated." I know I won't be able to hear the drill when I'm knocked out, but I am wondering about the H afterwards.

I was totally fine with the sound of the drill in all parts of my mouth EXCEPT that last tooth, where the sound transmitted through my bone. At that point, the drill sound had been going on for about 5 min and I was fine... then one zap in that last part and it was unbearable.

lastly: fillings do NOT last forever, regardless if you floss and practice good oral hygeine (though no doubt, better flossing, etc. will extend that time as much as possible). Since I already have fillings, these will break down over time. I anticipate I will still be alive in 15 years from now (the lifetime of a filling). This is what I am wondering about... that till WILL come. I am anxious about what I can do at that time.
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Essayons

Registered:
Posts: 14
Reply with quote  #8 
as I have said before, we must be talking about different things. I never said sedation would work. I would agree that sedation wouldn't work. I am saying GENERAL ANESTHESIA. and I do not believe 45 out of 45 people have general anesthesia awareness. Local? yes. sedation? yes. General? no way.

Here's some definitions of sedation/anesthesia:

http://www.sgna.org/issues/sedationfactsorg/sedationadministration/sedationlevels.aspx

regarding anesthesia awareness: http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/blogs/paging.dr.gupta/2007/12/awake-waking-up-during-surgery.html

1-2 out of 1000, according to this.

I understand that you avoid cavities. Nobody seeks cavities. but when a filling falls out, in many cases, it will need to be refilled. Your advice to avoid cavities has been heard. Now I am looking for info on what to do in the event that I will need to fill. If anyone has advice in that particular scenario, I'd like to hear.
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olms

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Posts: 321
Reply with quote  #9 
Essayons:

1. Regarding fillings falling out. My filling fell out  a couple of years ago, and no cavity has developed because I brush and floss regularly and don't eat sugar. So a dentist may want to drill to replace the filling, but if my 70 dBs sound tolerance ears can't stand an 85-90 dBs or louder drill, I don't have that option of the drill.

2. The Oxford study I quoted noted that 45 out of 45 people questioned said they could hear talking while under the anesthesia.

The study was called:

"Auditory perceptions, hearing sounds or voices were mentioned
                   by all patients (45 of 45)." (Hearing and Anesthesia.) (march, 2013)
                     (www.oxfordjournals.org)

They said the patients were under anesthesia, not using the word sedation, and could still hear sounds or voices.

I think the practice of trying to avoid cavities, rather than getting cavities and thinking about the problem then, would be the better route.

To your question of "what to do in the event that I will need to fill" is this: There is nothing you can do.

You can either have the tooth pulled, or risk the sound of a steel dental drill on your hard tooth at 85-90 dBs 1 inch from your unprotected ear, since so-called "hearing protection" won't work on sound coming from inside the eardrum out. 

I've heard that having the tooth pulled is preferable to the drill by some h patients who have undergone the drill and wished they hadn't. But people can choose either one of those.

The stress on trying to protect the teeth against cavities is because once you get a cavity, you're dead in the water. There is no more philosophizing from 5 years away, or an intellectual discussion of the semantics or definition of sedation and anesthesia, because you've got a cavity.

You put your energies in the wrong direction, whether sedation and anesthesia mean the same thing. You could have been brushing and flossing your teeth and avoiding sugar such as candy and desserts and soda. But why take the trouble if you could be concentrating on semantics, which is not going to bail you out if you get a cavity? 

You got an appointment with the dentist tomorrow. Your tooth is hurting so bad you can't think. You didn't put your thoughts on a tying to avoid cavities and now you're fixing to pay for it. It's all over. You messed up, because there is nothing you can do, except have the tooth pulled or undergo 85-90 dBs of sound 1 inch from your ear.

That's why I stress good dental health, because the other is so horrendous.

                              Tom


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Essayons

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Posts: 14
Reply with quote  #10 
geez, Tom... I GET IT!!  Can I get someone else to respond, please?  With new information??  You've c/p'ed a number of times now.

and I still don't believe that every person under anesthesia has awareness.  I just don't buy it because I have been under anesthesia myself.  I believe what I have read about it, and I believe my own experience.  I've had facial surgery, I've had a C-Section, I've had laproscopic surgery, and I've had teeth pulled.  No awareness of any of those... and I was under general.  I've had other procedures where I was not under general anesthesia and I could hear everything. 

I'm talking about general anesthesia, as spelled out by the definition in the link I provided.  Unless your Oxford study actually provided a definition of what they meant by "anesthesia", I must assume it wasn't general anesthesia.  I've experienced it.  

And... as I have stated before, I was able to tolerate the sound of the drill when it was in my mouth... just not when it went through the bone (just that last tooth).  I can c/p the same info just as easily as you can, but I don't find that to be particularly productive.
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Essayons

Registered:
Posts: 14
Reply with quote  #11 
now I get it. 

http://bja.oxfordjournals.org/content/80/2/133.full.pdf

they interviewed people who were referred to them, or by answering an advertisement.

as in:  "if you ever had this experience... contact us."

It's not the norm.  1-2 out of 1000.  I like those odds, especially since I have been under general 4 times and have no awareness, I think I'm one of the 998.
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