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saab1216

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As I was listening to Fleetwood Mac "rumours" ,the song "don't stop",I realized that the vocals were very low compared to the music.The vocals also had a very echoey quality as well.I have been noticing this more and more as I comb through different music.Not all selections pose this peculiarity but enough do. As a music buff I have a discerning ear of right and wrong.It seems as if my mid range is out to lunch.Acoustics,particularly guitars tend to drown out the vocals.Is this due to my stage of hyperacusis or hearing loss.My mid range hearing  test proved to be good.Anyone else experiencing this as well? I first complained of no bass but now it is this....Things seem to keep surfacing.


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Paul
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Reply with quote  #2 
Hi Paul!

I sometimes wondered what happened to the mid range. All I could hear was low end (muffled) and high pitched harshness.

But nowadays the low end and mid ranges are normal again, only the high end leaves me with some trouble. In June 2008 I could only listen to 1% of the songs i normally was able to listen to. All the other stuff sounded distorted, weird, out of balance, and not as I remembered. But not anymore!

Only high pitched sounds in music sometimes give me a hard time. And sometimes I can hear this harshness on top of voices. But not all the time anymore. And also, it seems like my ears need to adjust a few minutes to the sound before it starts to sound normal. But a few minutes is nothing compared to what it used to be months ago.

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aQuieterBreeze

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Reply with quote  #3 
Hi Paul,

I had been thinking of you today, and
wanted to remind you of what Rob
had mentioned about finding a Knowledgeable clinician.
I know these challenges can be really difficult, and as I keep saying
I really think that if I could have gone to one of the clinicians
who is Very knowledgeable, and experienced in treating hyperacisis,
a Long time ago, I really think I would be doing alot better than I am at this point.
Though Thankfully I am doing alot better than I had been,
it has taken me a Long time to get where I am,
and a Long time to figure some things out.
I really do think that what has really helped for me-
is a combination of alot of things,
and I think a Very Good Experienced Knowledgeable clinician would
have been able to tell me what I needed to do,
and helped me figure out how to do it- Long ago.
I spent WAY too much time without
doing something in the way of sound therapy-
and there were Many other things that I did not know about.
I had lots of questions, and it took me a long time
to find and also, figure out some answers.
And I am still figuring them out.
And I am extremely grateful for the kindness
of some who have helped me do that.

We are all different,
and I think a GOOD Knowledgeable Hearing Healthcare Clinician  would realize and recognize  that..
And though I think there is more than one path to improvement with these challenges,
I also think that IF I could have gone to one of those VERY knowledgeable clinicians
a long time ago, I would be a lot better by now.
I wish you the best- please know that those these challenges can be difficult-
There are ways through them.
Take Care

P.S. Will reply to your question in this thread in a little while.
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aQuieterBreeze

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Reply with quote  #4 
Hi Paul,

I don't know if you have been reading anything about the formats
of music and how some can affect how things sound.
From what I have read, sometimes music that is downloaded sounds different, (in part because the formats used may not always retain the best quality) and also sometimes new releases of old albums may be remixed differently-
(Just something to keep in mind if something sounds different.
Like on the radio or something, it could be the way we hear it, but it could also be the
way the sound was processed. And I wonder about that sometimes if I hear something on the radio, at times that does not sound right.)

It's interesting that you mention Fleetwood Mac. I tried listening to some of their stuff
a couple of months ago, and had to turn it off, Part of it was was the vocals.

One of the things about trying out music, don't get discouraged if things don't sound right yet. For me it all seems t change as time goes by.
Strange thing is I could tolerate some really high pitch things before, that actually sound a bit high to me now, as they should- because I am still working on getting my bass setting to a normal level on my stereo. Also as I am able to increase the volume, even more sounds and nuances in the music are noticeable. (I noticed that Sun. afternoon when I turned something up a bit- Though I listen to alot of things at this point,  I have been listening to a few songs off one particular album for a long time, but when I turned it up a bit more today,- I heard more subtle sounds in the background that I did not notice as much before.

I had a really hard time with some acoustic music to start with, though I don't remember it drowning out the vocals, I just could not listen to it.
Live albums were more difficult for me for a bit as well,
So were "compilations" like "greatest hits" albums  verses the original individual albums.

I know that it took me awhile to get to the point that sounds in the real world (not music ) seemed like they were in the background again- instead of having it seem like all sounds were in the foreground, and I wonder if that I could be part of what you are noticing? If you are noticing something similar with music? In some cases like the acoustic stuff you tried to listen to?

As I have gone through these challenges, and been listening to music- It has been very enjoyable to be able to listen to what I have, and also to be able to add to it- over time.

Hope you find more sounds good to you all the time.
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saab1216

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Reply with quote  #5 

Dear Breeze, Yes absolutely.I can best describe my hearing as background/foreground reversal.The inadamant sounds that "normal"ears perceive as background noise,I gather up as a total symphony of clamour! Your desciption of how music is produced in the technical sense sheds new light to me.It is in the multiple tracks and overdubs that can confuse my hearing perception.It is like being at the supermarket and hearing an ensamble of squeaky wheels over the sound/p.a.system.Things are audibly out of order in my world. It has been only a few months and I am impatiently waiting to get back to my home planet(normal sounds).In the meantime,I need to keep touching base with my fellow threaders. Thanks a million.


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Paul
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Debbie

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Reply with quote  #6 
Hi Saab, I, too, have described these ear 'challenges' like being on the moon or sent to another planet.
Very surreal, when it is at peak.
Luckily, the spaceship seems to pass closer to Earth in time.
At some point there comes a time when it seems that it might even land.

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saab1216

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Reply with quote  #7 

Good reply Deb.We shouldnt hurry the ship!Things on Earth can be too boring anyway!


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Paul
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Debbie

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Reply with quote  #8 
Yeah, normal hearing is sooo taken for granted by Earthlings.


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Rob

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Reply with quote  #9 
Paul --
 
The way your brain is processing sound is strikingly different from the way it used to do that.  This is why music sounds distorted to you and why, as you put it, the midrange seems to be out to lunch.  

Rob

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saab1216

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Reply with quote  #10 

Rob,I concur on your response that my brain is perceiving sounds differently.It seems to be processing sounds in pieces and not as a whole.


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Paul
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Rob

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Reply with quote  #11 
That makes sense, Paul.  When you heard normally, you didn't think in terms of sound as low, mids and highs when you listened to, say, Fleetwood Mac.  You just listened to the entire presentation, and perhaps focused on a voice or a guitar or drums. When something isn't right about a sound, we tend to focus on it and to be very aware of it. 

Rob
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aQuieterBreeze

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Reply with quote  #12 
Hello,

I wonder what it is
that makes it so we also hear so much more in the music when we Really listen?
When we find what does sound really good?

I remember noticing not the way the whole song sounded, but All the sounds in it-
all the subtle nuances/variations.  Something I never noticed before.
And I wondered if that was in part because I had quit listening to music for a long time,
though maybe  that is similar to what you are talking about here?
(about how the brain processes sound)
I thought it was because my hearing was just that much more sensitive.
(Though maybe in part, like all the other sounds, around me- all sounds were really noticeable?)

When I Really listen to music, and Focus on it, It was and still is VERY different than having it on just in the background.

But if the music I try to listen to, doesn't  sound good I put something else on, so I focus on what does sound good, And it sounds good to me.
(Though some things still do not, and in time they either will (sound good), or I'll happily listen to something else.)

Paul,

Rob has mentioned somethings before, about the quality of sound-
and recommended listening to professionally recorded CD's or albums, especially for certain things in particular.

And with what you mention, it makes me wonder if are you listening to albums? Cd's? Or something else?
As that  could make a difference.

Rob,

You mentioned to Paul-

The way your brain is processing sound is strikingly different from the way it used to do that.  This is why music sounds distorted to you and why, as you put it, the midrange seems to be out to lunch.  

About the midrange being out to lunch - did he, she?,or they,  happen to mention when they would be returning?

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aQuieterBreeze

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Reply with quote  #13 
Hi Paul,

Just wanted to say that I am No expert on audio, or sound- I have read a few articles about how it is processed these days and also remember from when I was beginning to listen to music again, there was a cd I was able to listen to, and  so after listening to the same album for awhile, I tried other cd's by the same group.
A couple were "Greatest Hits" collections, and I realized that they were difficult for me to listen to, yet the same song on a different album was ok or more ok for my ears.
Anyway- the two greatest hits albums, I was trying in that case, have Some of the SAME songs on them, though one has more on it as well. And that one seems to sound better.
I have not tried the other one again, in a long. time though.
But that is how I know about the compilations-
Also with  "greatest hits" collections- some I have had NO difficulty with. But those are pretty old- (the compilations themselves are from a long time ago.)
And with Live albums I noticed that the songs vary alot from the originals, and the crowd noise/applause at times made it difficult for my hearing as well..
After awhile though, it got to where I didn't wind up turning the volume down for the applause (for the most part, or as much/as often) on the Live cuts from the cs's I have been listening to.
(But those cds are still limited, and other albums may leave me wishing for quick control for the volume again.) Also when my hearing gets more sensitive, the applause etc. can be more difficult again. So I tend to  be more careful at those times.

Anyway, all I know is how things sound to me and as the Beatles said
"It's getting better all the time......."

And as far as someone who really does know about sound? (There may be a few people around here, though  i am not sure who they are, for the most part.)
But I know of at least  someone around here who Really does have a very good idea about sound and frequency ranges and how it affects us- and from what I can tell, Really knows his stuff about sound, on a technical level as well.

In fact he may have seen your midrange as he was having lunch recently.
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saab1216

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Reply with quote  #14 

The other day when I listened to Fleet wood mac it was on my P.c. The tracks were indeed downloads.I experimented with my home stereo system with external speakers and the vocals seemed a little bit more noticeable.I have not had  the same reaction with my car F.M. radio system.I really think it has to do Worth mp3 format recordings only.It also seems that when things are played in mono format my ears can adequately perceive a smoother sound.Things in stereo(especially when sitting close to speakers) sound almost confusing to my ears.I do hear a lot of subtle sounds that I hadn't really focused on before.I believe its my new found ability to perceive much higher end frequencies.They are almost surreal to me.It is like the resonation of acoustics come alive(even with crappy speakers).I think breeze is explaining this as well! When I am out doors in public places,I experience all the same nuances(as breeze put it!)...it just doesn't come off as pleasing,of course.It is a strange and remarkable phenomenon.I can easily note all of these dramatic changes since I am still a new H/T alien! I have just set foot down into this crazy realm and Nobody at home understands me!(they call me crazy).Thanks 4 all of you being here 4 me when the rest of the world sits in front of those loud,annoying t.v.sets at night! P.S. midrange might not be too far out to lunch....It seems to vary on what point of confusion im in at times


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Paul
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Rob

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Reply with quote  #15 
Paul --
 
Let me explain this very simply.  mp3 files, by necessity, contain a lot of high-end frequencies.  A lot of digital information is also left out of mp3 files in order to make them very small.  This has nothing to do with your newfound ability to perceive much higher end frequencies.  You are sensitive to higher ended frequencies, and the reason you have such difficulty with mp3 files is because they contain a lot of them.  You don't have the same problem with the FM radio because they don't play mp3 files over the radio.  
 
Rob

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saab1216

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Reply with quote  #16 

Makes all the sense I need.Now if I could only understand why I am so sensitive to high frequencies.I keep studying all the material on Jasterbroff and still dont get the right answers on Hyperacusis.Its always on Tinnitus.I deal with that much easier. Thanks for the input though!


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Paul
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Rob

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Reply with quote  #17 
Paul -

Why don't you write out your questions, post them here, and let's see what we can figure out together.  One of the hallmarks of hyperacusis is to be extra sensitive to high-frequency sound. 

Rob

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aQuieterBreeze

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Reply with quote  #18 
Paul,


You mentioned-
......I do hear a lot of subtle sounds that I hadn't really focused on before.I believe its my new found ability to perceive much higher end frequencies.They are almost surreal to me.........

.....When I am out doors in public places,I experience all the same nuances(as breeze put it!)...it just doesn't come off as pleasing,of course.It is a strange and remarkable phenomenon.I can easily note all of these dramatic changes since I am still a new H/T alien! I have just set foot down into this crazy realm.....


One of the things I learned about my tinnitus, was not to focus on it.
I may notice it, sometimes more than others, but the less I focus on it the better off I am.
I found the same true of the other sounds that tried to draw my attention,
(the ones I did not seem to notice before, that suddenly became very  noticeable-
like the fridge and distant traffic, and so much in between)
yes they are there and can be difficult, but the less I allowed myself to focus on them,
the better off I was- and still am.
It was not easy, but once I realized that not ALL sounds were really a problem for me-
And certainly not everything I heard, because I could hear alot in the way of sound,
And I also realized that if something really was too difficult For Me -
I could deal with it, by doing what I needed to in order to protect my hearing in whatever way was necessary For Me -
but otherwise, the less attention I paid to the other sounds trying to draw my attention,
the better off I was.
And maybe that is part of why and when they start to fade to the background again?
Though I am not sure, but the more we focus on something, the more we notice it.
With music- I am very happy to notice all the beautiful, and subtle sounds I do, as well as the way they all blend in some cases - and if all else returns to normal for me, as far as these hearing challenges- that is the one thing I really wish to keep.
And maybe I will, because I focus on it.....

I also hope to keep the knowledge and understanding I have gained, and continue to gain about these challenges, from those who have graciously shared what they have learned.
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