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Joel

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Reply with quote  #1 

Hello everyone!

 

In case you don't know or don't remember I'm a 24 y.o. drummer with Tinnitus and Hyperacusis (2 months and counting).

 

Anyway, my questions:

 

Are you familiar with Kevin Hogan @ all??

 

http://www.kevinhogan.com

 

I just read his book, Tinnitus:  Turning the Volume Down....good resource!

 

Anyway, In a couple weeks I am more than likely going to be starting TRT or Neuromonics treatments with a Tinnitus specialist here in Chicago, but Kevin seems to really stress hypnotherepy and metioned--when I told him about the above treatments--"you might want to save your money until after you have had a teleconsult. most therapies don't work and most people don't know what they are doing.  So, if suggests setting up a $250 phone call with him.

 

What do you all think?  I'd love any info and/or suggestions.

 

TRT, Neuromonics or Hypnotherapy???

 

Thanks,

 

Joel

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DanMalcore

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Reply with quote  #2 
I would strongly encourage Joel to start with TRT.  By far it has the best track record of anything.   Most experts in the field would agree.

Dan





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DanMalcore

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Reply with quote  #3 

Joel, the tinnitus message board is located at:

http://p080.ezboard.com/ftinnitussupport92262frm1

 

Dan


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EasterBunny

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Reply with quote  #4 

Joel asked [in part]:

 

TRT, Neuromonics or Hypnotherapy???

 

.............

 

Kevin Hogan (Hypnotherapy) - Joel, you really need to thoroughly check out the website you linked to in the first post in this thread.  I do not think I have ever encountered such an unabashed medical entrepreneur in my entire life.  Now you've read his book.  Fine.  I assume that you purchased the book because you wanted to become more informed.  And you are now more informed.  But are you better informed?  Well that really depends upon the quality of the information in the book.  Is it good information - or is it MISinformation?  Let's leave the answer to that aside and instead simply admit what you do know - and that is that you are really not in a position to know whether or not it's good information.  Right?  So now you wonder whether or not it will be worth it to pay the medical entrepreneur $250 for an hour of his time on the telephone.  What do we know?  Well, we know that it's pretty unusual for a health care professional to sell an hour of telephone contact.  And what don't we know?  We don't know if it will be worth it.  So, if I were in your shoes, I'd ask!  Kevin Hogan tells you in essence that before you spend some REAL money on something else, you ought to spend $250 on him.  (As if $250 were chump change!)  So before you do that, why don't you ask Kevin Hogan in what ways you can legitimately expect to be better off after spending a single hour on the telephone with him.  And then you need to get a feel for (1) whether or not he's yanking you around, (2) whether what he says he can accomplish in one single hour is worth $250, and (3) if you think that after that one single $250 hour this medical entrepreneur is going to recommend another $250 hour and another ... and another ... and another after that.

 

TRT - Joel, you have had tinnitus and hyperacusis for but two months!  I know it seems like a lifetime, but it's just two months.  Regarding TRT for tinnitus, what it really does is facilitate habituation of tinnitus, which is itself a natural process.  (TRT does not lower the dB of your tinnitus in any way.)  So one important question to ask yourself is how far along in the natural process of habituation are you?  For instance, in your first week of tinnitus what percentage of your waking hours did you happen to be aware of your tinnitus when not purposely trying to hear it?  (I know you can always hear it if you try to; habituation has to do with being consciously aware of it when you are not actually listening for it.)  Compare the percentage from the first couple of weeks to the present.  And after answering the "% awareness" question, ask yourself on a scale of 1-10 how much your tinnitus bothered you at the times that you did happen to be aware of it in the first weeks as compared to now.  I would respectfully suggest that if overall you are noticing a positive trend, I'm not sure I'd rush into TRT (or ADP/Neuromonics any other protocol for that matter).  OK, if after that little exercise you have decided that strictly from a tinnitus standpoint that you really need to start TRT now (as opposed to giving it more time), then I'd use the TRT for your hyperacusis as well.  But if you do think that you are beginning to habituate your tinnitus on your own, then I'd at least think about using a pink noise CD properly for $15 or so to treat your hyperacusis before doing TRT for your hyperacusis at $4000!

 

Well, there you have it, Joel.  An opinion likely worth about as much as you've paid for it.  But maybe I've given you a couple of things to think about.  Best of luck!

 

The Easter Bunny

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LynnMcLaren

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Reply with quote  #5 

Hi Joel, ((( Smiles )))

 

Even thou I never did TRT myself. I think thats a great therapy if thats the what you want to do.

 

This network allso provides the pink noise Cd and it's a good thing to have as well.... I believe..

 

For $15 why not ?  But I used mostly the pink noise tape at that time thou you can't get the pink noise tape anymore.

 

But the hyperacusis network Cd is a good thing to have untill you can get a TRT provider. 

 

I have both..  Tape and Cd ....

 

And it just makes me feel better to have them even thou I'm doing really good at this time...

 

But I was reading the post above..

 

If you think you are habitating your tinnitus on your own.. I hope thats right as I can't copy and past at this time..

 

But I wasen't habitating to my tinnitus at the time as it was progressive in getting worse over time... 

 

And I had no such thoughts back then on anything like habitation untill I came to the network mostly.

 

Thou I did have one book back then on tinnitus ..

 

Not sure when I purchased that one thou..  It was my first book... And the wrong book for me..

 

And it might have been later on..

 

And I had tinnitus about a year before I got the tape but I was really freaked out about the hyperacusis..

 

And I needed to do something about that and... 

 

It just made my tinnitus act up even on inaudible hardly on just with useing it and I just had to deal with it back then......

 

My tinnitus was a daily thing back then....

 

And the pink noise tape with the information they sent me talked about hyperacusis only..

 

And then I read something informational I had on things getting far worse before they get better on someone who had used the pink noise tape for hyperacusis and they used it for two years I think it was... 

 

So I thought back then..

 

That this is just what happens .. This is what real hard must mean..

 

So I just lived in it... And tryed to do it... Starting off real slowly... ..

 

So I had no thoughts on it back then.... on habitation..

 

Ignorance served me well after I stoped running to the doctors for help and phoned the ATA...

 

Because I would have been real scared to proceed with anything if I had any doubts at all ..

 

Yet.. My tinnitus is doing real well now.. So.. All's well that ends well.

 

Not  recommending this for anybody else but I just wanted to say..

 

I wasen't habitating at all.. back then... And then finally..  After some months...

 

Things got alittle better with my tinnitus thou I did other things as well.. 

 

But.. TRT is a good therapy if thats what you can do..

 

And want to do...

 

Go for it... 

 

But the pink nose Cd is a good product at a good price as well.

 

Glad we have both... 


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Lynn
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LynnMcLaren

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Reply with quote  #6 

Just for clarification.. I wanted to come back and add.

 

I didn't think I was beginning to habituate to my tinnitus and used the pink noise.

 

Laurene had terrible tinnitus as well and she didn't think she was habituateing to her tinnitus and used TRT..

 

And their may be others who did't think they are habituating to their tinnitus and then used the network pink noise Cd as well..

 

Are you saying the network Cd used overtime can't work in that regard for thoses who may be unable to travel for some reason or afford TRT ????

 

Because I believe.. that doesn' mean that others who used different methods who did not think they were beginning to habitute to their tinnitus didn't eventually habitute anyway..

 

Or there tinnitus got lot's better in the long run as well....

 

And for some.. TRT or the Pink noise Cd can make tinnitus act up worse then it allready is.. 

 

Like they are not going to habituate... So I don't know.. I just don't want that fear to hold anyone back from trying to get better.

 

With a broadband based sound.. And even if that means going the TRT way..

 

I just don't want that yardstick of fear.. To hold anybody back from a therapy. I mean.. I didn't know about the pink noise Cd or about TRT till later on... 

 

I just new what I new which wasen't much but the information I had at hand.. And did what I did... So why or is not possible... can't the network pink noise Cd help a person ever habituate to their tinnitus over time even if it doesn't seem to have habituated beforehand ..

 

Even thou... they never have tryed any broadband based therapies.... Over time.. To know that for sure..

 

Even thou TRT is a great way to go with a better delivery system..

 

And I say go for it................ 

 

But my thing is... how fear could hold somebody back from the unknown..

 

When the tinnitus and hyperacusis is just bad....

 

This is not about TRT.. It's about that...  


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LynnMcLaren

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Reply with quote  #7 

 

Before.... When my tinnitus was progressive I didn't hear anything that made me feel that there was something I could really do about my tinnitus...

 

Thats why I had so many things done to my ears that weren't helpfull and made me worst. It all started with tinnitus for me..  A one ear 24/7 tonal sound what one would call ringing...

 

Tinnitus that keeping getting worse and I was really upset.. It was awful.... 

 

I had what Dr J would call negative counseling... I'm talking about my expirence... 

 

I didn't hear anything about broadband based therapies or the limbic system or just..... Anything to get a real  grip on my situation before it got this bad.. 

 

I just had things done to my ears that made things worse.. I am so glad that I didn't get any negative counseling when I finally got something I thought  would help me with my situation..

 

Something finally positive in my life.. Thanks to the ATA.. Thanks to a piece of paper that came with my tape that looked like something finally positive to me.. 

 

That said this can help me when nothing else could before.. 

 

No matter how hard it was to use...

 

If I heard before.. That it wouldn't work.. No matter how long you use it.. Your tinnitus might got stuck like that for ever..  It could get worse.. look what's happening to you now.. 

 

You will never get better if you don't get TRT..... like someone told me by E-Mail long long time ago when I was suffering enough.

 

And I do believe TRT is a wonderfull therapy.. But I got better regardless with my determination.

 

And I didn't listen... I had to tune it out.. In my situation.... Thats was my situation...

 

Others may find themsleves in a situation where they can't go as well. 

 

But I really do believe the avoidence of negative counseling is a good thing because if I did't think I could have gone thru with what I had and come out in the long run O.K...

 

If I didn't believe what I was doing was going to help me someday.. 

 

That the possibilitys existed...  

 

No matter how it felt or how hard it was...

 

I might not have had a fair chance... I would have been to scared to proceed forward..

 

I think before a person gets TRT.. A pink noise Cd can be helpful. 

 

I think a pink noise Cd can be helpfull regardless.

 

I think a person should do something.. Try something...

 

I think thinking positive about any hyperacusis or the possible relief of tinnitus from a broadband based therapies possible effectiveness... 

 

Is more helpfull then any negative counseling.. Even sound machines or just tuneing it out or reading a book about it to feel more in control..

 

Can help...

 

I think.. It should be given a chance to work...

 

Because.. It just might.... 

 

With what ever a way a person decideds to go with it... for whatever reason..

 

Less stress .. Less fear.. Less doubt ... And more positive counseling helps..

 

To get the best results with what ever method one may try..

 

Thats.. Just my belief... After all I went thru...

 

So .. In saying that.. Just because a person has not any success with their tinnitus before..

 

Doesn't mean they won't eventually with the pink noise CD.. Or with what I did...

 

Nothing to do with TRT... Just.. Anythings possible...

 

But a broadbased based therapy can make a difference in ones life..

 

Just my expirence with what I did to help myself and how I came out though thats not all I did to get better..

 

Now time to rest.. I think I have the flu as my child has been home for 5 days from school sick.. 

 

Just wanted to say.. All things are possible.. Thats all...

 

    


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Lynn
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LynnMcLaren

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Reply with quote  #8 

The choice is between ...  (((( Smiles ))))

 

TRT , Neuromonics and hypnotherapy.

 

They had an articule on neuromonics in the latest Tinnitus Today.

 

But still between thoses three. I would pick TRT..

 

But I still think the Network Pink Noise Cd is worth haveing..  $15

 

Sorry for rambling on.. I better go to bed.. I think I'm fighting the flu..

 

But all things are still possible when it comes to tinnitus or hyperacusis..

 

A postive outlook does help...  


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EasterBunny

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Reply with quote  #9 

Lynn posted [in part]:

 

But still between thoses three. I would pick TRT..

 

............

 

That's a very broad statement, Lynn.  Don't you think that what folks want to accomplish should be taken into account in selecting a treatment?

 

The Easter Bunny

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LynnMcLaren

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Reply with quote  #10 

Lets see.   (((( Smiles ))))

 

For T and H and the only choice is between thoses three types of therapies...

 

TRT is mostly for T and H.. Or H and T. Or either.. T or H.. 

 

And I think but not sure but.. Have to read the Tinnitus Today that just came in recently and it talked about neuromonics..

 

I'm going to do that eventually... as I have brain lag caused by fightening the flu.. This one is pretty bad yet..  It didn't hit me that hard. It did yesterday thou.. At least my ears.... but actually..

 

Today they feel lots better.

 

I never got the high flushed face like fever for days like my daughter did but.... And I hope I don't either.. It just made me feel real tired and I had a headache and my ears felt full and burning..

 

So until I read the new thoughts on Neuromonics.. And I know that stress and tiredness can effect tinnitus.. My tinnitus flaired up while sick but ....

 

But I can't hear it at all now..

 

So a relaxation therapy wouldn't be a bad thing like hypnotherapy..

 

And it could help one tune out there tinnitus better and cope better with the H and with any sound therapy one might use..

 

And not feel so depressed and powerless by doing something..

 

I think I read about hypnotherapy as it is something one can teach themselves to do at home.. I think I have an old book on it upstairs.

 

But takeing into account what folks want to accomplish in selecting a therapy.. I see what you mean.. But usually that means getting rid of or makeing better the T and H...

 

I guess a person could try more then just one therapy... 

 

So which one do you think is the best of thoses three. Have you read the articule in the Tinnitus Today yet on Neuromonics ? 

 

 


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EasterBunny

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Reply with quote  #11 

Lynn posted [in part]:

 

For T and H and the only choice is between thoses three types of therapies...

 

.............

 

What about cognitive behavioral therapy?  And how about pink noise?  Xanax?  The list goes on ...

 

.............

 

So which one do you think is the best of thoses three.

 

.............

 

Lynn, what is "best" for one person may not be "best" for another person.  It depends on what you as a patient wish accomplish with the therapy.  That was the point I was trying to make in my last post.

 

............

 

Have you read the articule in the Tinnitus Today yet on Neuromonics ?

 

............

 

Yes.

 

The Easter Bunny

(Got a lot of eggs to hide.  This is my busy season!)

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LynnMcLaren

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Reply with quote  #12 

I am glad we have choices and things to fall back on...

 

What about pink noise, cognitive behavioral therapy ect...

 

But above.. Joel said he would more then likely be going to do either TRT or Neuromonics...

 

For T and H.. I thought TRT if it's between thoses two therapys..

But at the same time.. I need to read that articule.

 

Maybe Joel can try both..  If one doesn't do it after the full therapy..

Try the other...

 

But TRT does have a high success rate.. Expecially with hyperacusis..

If it's just between thoses two................


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Lynn
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EasterBunny

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Reply with quote  #13 

Lynn posted:

 

But TRT does have a high success rate..

 

...........

 

That really depends on whether Joel wants to achieve what TRT purports to accomplish, right?

 

If Joel's goal in treatment is otherwise, then as far as he is concerned TRT may have a very low success rate.

 

Here's an example.  Let's say Joel wants to be an architect.  He can go to the best law school in the country, but it's not going to help him succeed.

 

So when choosing which treatment modality is "best" for you, it really helps to take into consideration what it is that you wish to have accomplished at the end of treatment.

 

Just something to think about.

 

The Easter Bunny

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LynnMcLaren

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Reply with quote  #14 

I found the book.. It's called..

 

AutoHypnosis A Step By Step Guide To Self Hypnosis.

 

Left Brain Right Brain Techniques for releasing creative energy By Ronald Shone B. Sc., M.A.

 

I think I read this along time ago. And maybe that is kind of what I did when I was stuck in the back bedroom..Early on and thru sound therapy..

 

Trying to tune it all out. My tinnitus the pink noise tape even when I had it playing on inaudible to everyone but me..

 

My husband put his ear down to the tape player back then and he couldn't hear it playing but I did.. I had to start from there. Slowly.. building up..

 

But I had to try to focus on something else. Not my tinnitus or that tape..It took practice over months and months but I eventually was able to get myself slowly over time..

 

Lost in a book.. Reading a magazine or the newspaper.. It was so hard. I couldn't concentrate or read a book at first. Couldn't tune it out. We had alittle box fridge and a small microwave on top of it in that room and my husband thought it would be great idea to store food in it but ...

 

It had to be unplugged I couldn't handle it on...

 

But I worked on trying to tune it all out. Get lost in something else.. There was one of thoses hang on a nail over the door round face clocks way across the room.. With big numbers on it.  It made a very low low soft slow tick sound when the hand moved...

 

It's so soft you can hardly hear it and my child has one in her room at night right now and it's very benign. You don't even notice it . But it use to bother me but I had to try to learn to tune it out over time..  

 

I had to learn a new skill to be able to handle any sound at all back then at my worst.. Keeping one from loseing there mind with T and H....

 

I guess it's like... looking at the picture of this timeing device on the cover of this book...  Is it called a metronome ???.. I forget the name but it's a skill to be developed overtime.. Getting lost.. Tuneing all the stimula out.. But there is an articule in the newspaper today about HypnoTherapy..

 

It says.. The mind is a fantastic piece of machinery. HypnoTherapy is a certified proffesion separate from the medical community but gaining acceptance among psychiatrists. It can help beat addiictions and phobias, and even enable clients to recollect the location of misplaced items..

 

If you put something somewhere and you can't find it, your unconscious mind knows where it is. It constantly records what happens." Hypnosis refers to a state of mind when the brain is " super attentive " and blocks out outside distractions. People expirence hypnosis during daily routines. Drivers who zone out while on the road expirence " highway hypnosis. "

 

Hypnosis occurs while reading , watching movies and watering the lawn.. 

 

During this state, the unconscious mind prevails over the conscious mind. Imagination and memories are located in the unconscious side of the brain. Hypnotherpists bypass the conscious mind to connect directly to the unconscious. Brain wave cycle decreases from a " Beta" state to an "Alpha " state enabling the recipient to focus solely on whatever the unconscious mind conjures up.

 

A person can experience.. How relax and calm you can be..

To me it's like going within.. Calming onself.. 

 

And with T and H.. It's very hard to do but can be learned..


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Reply with quote  #15 

I find the Neuromonics program to be very mysterious in its presentation, and I would add that I do not have any awareness that it is applicable for hyperacusis.

 

Does anyone else know of resources or info that point to its use for hyperacusis?

 

Marsha Johnson, M.S.

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LynnMcLaren

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Reply with quote  #16 

Hi Marsha, ((( Smiles ))))

 

So nice to see you..   

 

I didn't read anything about it being for hyperacusis. But it's under Why Sound Therapy Works in the Tinnitus Today about Tinnitus.

 

It was talking about a number of sound tharpies and devices that are available- some over the counter , others thru an audiologist or other health care provider.

 

Then it talked about music therapy , includeing the new Neuromonics system.

 

It's under music therapy. It uses modified music , delivered through high - fidelity earphones , that matches the patients individual hearing and tinnitus levels. It makes the entire range of music audible, comfortable and low level.

 

The Neuromonics proticol builds on the principles of ( TRT ) , and incorperates intermittent masking as well. They report a high success rate..

 

The primary advantage of the Neuromonics treatment is that it can help a person habituate his or her tinnitus in six or seven months , considerably less the the 18 to 24 months usually required for TRT..

 

The articule talks about the tonal content.. Addressing the mismatch... This is just bits and pieces of that articule in Tinnitus Today..

 

But even thou eventually I did music therapy.. It was not thru a headphone and I could not listen to music at all early on with my hyperacusis..

 

And not in my ears when I started out trying to do it.. 

 

So I'm not sure what good it would do for hyperacusis.. It doesn't talk about hyperacusis in this articule. So I have no idea how that would work.......

 

Does anybody else know how that works for H ??? I mean H with T ??? As it is tinnitus they are talking about..  


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Lynn
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Reply with quote  #17 

Lynn asked:

 

So I'm not sure what good it [the Neuromonics protocol] would do for hyperacusis.. It doesn't talk about hyperacusis in this articule. So I have no idea how that would work.......

 

Does anybody else know how that works for H ???

 

...........

 

It doesn't!  The Neuromonics protocol only addresses tinnitus.

 

sp

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Reply with quote  #18 

Norm asked:

 

What should we wish to have accomplished at the end of the treatment?

 

...........

 

I don't know, Norm.  But I do know that, for instance, if your goal is to make environmental sounds more tolerable, you are better off with TRT or pink noise therapy than with, say, the Neuromonics protocol - - because the Neuromonics protocol doesn't do that!

 

And if your goal is learning how to relax so that your tinnitus is more tolerable, then I suppose learning self-hypnosis would be a better bet than TRT.

 

Moreover, if your goal is a total cure of both tinnitus and hyperacusis, then you should save your money - because none of the treatments currently in existence will accomplish that.

 

I have come to believe that the main reason people tend to be dissatisfied with various treatments is that they wish to accomplish something that is beyond the scope of the treatment they have undertaken!

 

If my goal is to swim in the Pacific, no matter how wonderful that trip to Bermuda might be ... it's simply not going to get me there!

 

sp

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LynnMcLaren

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Reply with quote  #19 

Yes...  Thats true...From what I read in the Tinnitus Today articule...

 

Thats what it said.. For tinnitus.. Nothing about hyperacusis...

 

Music therapy.. At least I know in my case. Only comes after starting with a broadband based therapy which for me.. was the pink noise tape and months later starting out very very low and building up to it... from an outer source of sound.. The Music Channel....

 

Only because someone on the board who was undergoing TRT told me to do so.. So thats what I tried to do and build up to it over time... I made myself do it..

 

After they explained the concept to me..

 

But hyperacusis is really touchy to outer sounds..  I think Neuromonics would be to real hard to do.. For hyperacustic ears to undertake that kind of treatment with headphones..  


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